Thursday, February 24, 2011

Godwin's Law, upside-down and backwards

Meet Stu. Stu hates feminsts. But he hates manginas even more. You might even say that Stu hates manginas the way Hitler hated Jews. No, I'm not comparing Stu to Hitler. He happily compares himself to Hitler in this comment on A Voice For Men.

Phew, I’m glad you [Paul Elam] said feminist hating is an honorable and viable political act because I certainly hate them. ... The real object of my hatred are those that enable these people. The ones that are actively engaged in creating the environment of misandry that we live in now.

For those people, career feminists and manginas, my hatred would be on par to Adolf Hitlers hatred of a super rich gay jew who was raping his arse. Out of these, I hate career manginas the most. There would be no mercy for these arseholes if I could be dictator for a day, they would soon be living what is left of their lives in extreme misery.

Emphasis added. This comment, Hitler and all, got more than three times as many upvotes as downvotes from the assembled mob site's readers. Of course, Stu's comment is in response to a post titled "The Scourge of Rape. Yeah, whatever," which means that these upvoters are people who enjoyed a post titled  "The Scourge of Rape. Yeah, whatever" so much that they stuck around afterwards to compliment the author, so, you know.

This, by contrast, is the sort of comment that gets downvoted on A Voice For Men, and which inspires the post's author, Paul Elam, to tell the commenter "fuck that, and fuck you. Let me say that again. Fuck you."

EDITED TO ADD: When I posted this piece last night, that second comment had virtually no upvotes; you had to click a link to even see it. I hope at least a few of the upvotes it now has were from the regulars on that site.

Another heartening sign: the critical response Elam's "Rape ... whatever" screed got on the Men's Rights subreddit on Reddit. His response to the criticism is rather telling. I'm generally not a fan of the Men's Rights subreddit, as you might imagine, but there are some decent people who comment there and it is much less hateful than almost all of the other MRA/MGTOW/etc sites I regularly read.

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*Yes, that was a Bioshock reference.

47 comments:

  1. You can become a *career* mangina now?

    What did you have to study in college to land that job?!?

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  2. "David is a fucking faggot ass mangina also."

    That's because David is a caring, empathic human being who views women as people, for:

    mangina=member of the human race.

    May I suggest you join and become one?:-)

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  3. "That's because David is a caring, empathic human being who views women as people . . . " Julie Uncanny

    . . . and men as mules and objects of mockery. Perhaps he start his own court jester service as an entertainment sideline, eh?

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  4. I find it interesting that he picks Hitler as a sympathetic character. Because the first thing people think of when they think of Hitler is "Poor Hitler, he had to be around all those Jews, of course he had to kill them".

    My hope is that a thousand years from now, people will see this crap and think, "WTF? There sure were a lot of lunatics around in the last century."

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  5. ". . . and men as mules and objects of mockery. Perhaps he start his own court jester service as an entertainment sideline, eh?"

    Not necessary: you're doing a much better job of that on your own!:)

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  6. "Not necessary: you're doing a much better job of that on your own!:)"---Julie Uncanny

    I see that comebacks are not your forte---the "I know he isn't, but you are!" is facile for your age.

    Wait a minute; I'm dealing with an ardent feminist that knows nothing else other than puerile slags, getting fat and watching Jersey Shore, and self-entitlement masked as "ek-wa-li-tee."

    Oh well, nevermind.

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  7. HOW NICE to see that you think you know me. I don't watch television, engage in *anything* but entitlement, and am pretty muscled..:) But that's okay: far be it from me to interrupt a good shrill screed. Carry on.:-)

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  8. Hahahaha, "facile for your age . . .*calls names*."

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  9. The first comment above is in blatant violation of my comment policy, and if it were directed at anyone but me I would deleted it, but I'll leave it up, at least for now. It's sort of revealing.

    wytch, cool it with the personal attacks or I'll start deleting your comments. And try making some actual points once in a while that don't involve calling people fat.

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  10. This dovetails nicely with a recent Pandagon thread about Rush Limbaugh, of all people, calling Michelle Obama fat. "Fat" is the fallback insult of the misogynist who's lost an argument with a woman. It's perfectly honed to the misogynist perspective: not only does it reduce the woman who's won the debate to her appearance (not that wytch has any idea what Julie actually looks like), but it assumes that the worst thing a woman can possibly do is take up space. Space that could be filled by the manly, heroic, alpha-male flab of a Rush Limbaugh rather than inferior female flesh.

    Everyone who uses a female-sounding name on the Internet has been called fat by a troll at some point. After a while, you barely notice it anymore.

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  11. Well, crap. Paul Elam's post is incredibly disgusting. Basically, his point seems to be that because he went through what sounds like a genuinely awful experience--certainly something akin to sexual abuse, I'd say--and was treated to the same kind of "It was your fault/get over it" reaction that (let's face it) most people who have been raped face, people who have been raped need to face up to the fact that it was their fault and they should get over it.

    Oh, and something about T-shirts. He's mad because he didn't get a T-shirt.

    He fails to understand that most people who have been raped are dismissed at best, and usually made to feel like they did something wrong. Sometimes people are able to band together with others who have gone through the same experience and find strength from giving voice to their pain. And Paul Elam says that's bad? Because ... he didn't get a T-shirt? Fuck Paul Elam.

    That some stupid Hitler fanboy identified with Paul Elam's bitter little piece of self-pitying wankery doesn't surprise me at all. Hey, wasn't some MRA commenter just saying something about how intelligent and moderate Paul Elam is? Ha! Gross.

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  12. hm... but david, paul elam is mainstream, and rational, you aren't supposed to be talking about him or you might anger the mistresses and the raven feminazi twats

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  13. ". . . and men as mules and objects of mockery."

    It would be more accurate to say he treats *some* men as objects of mockery. Which is to say those who thoroughly deserve derision of shaming. Not by any means all men, many of whom are decent chaps.

    "Perhaps he start his own court jester service as an entertainment sideline, eh?"

    Well, he's funnier than you, for starters.

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  14. ...derision *or* shaming.

    My apologies for the typo.

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  15. If you google 84829942-3a88-11e0-83da-000bcdcb5194, you'll discover that this loser leaves comment spam on random blogs that have nothing to do with feminism, MR, MGTOW. It's the same message over and over, "BOYCOTT AMERICAN WOMEN Why American men should boycott American women..." Yawn.

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  16. First they came for the manginas, and I did not speak out...

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  17. claire, excellent! His blog is in my boob roll, and I wrote a couple of posts about it. Good to know that's who it is.

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  18. Oh yes. Boycott American women. PLEASE! When are you going to start? Same goes for MGTOW. It's funny how they think this is going to pose some huge problem for anyone.

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  19. Sally - unfortunately, then they'll inflict their assholeness on foreign women. It would be nice if they did, in fact, go their own way, and never dated women again until they get help with their anger issues.

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  20. "I see that comebacks are not your forte"

    I love it. He calls her out for (what he thinks) is an insufficient comeback, then he proceeds to call her "fat." GOOD ONE WYTCH! As others have pointed out, no misogynist has EVER lost an argument to a woman, then called her fat to get even. You're a and unique snowflake, as always.

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  21. unfortunately, then they'll inflict their assholeness on foreign women

    Well, if any of them develop the wherewithal (not to mention the foreign language skills) to try, they'll discover that women in other countries have also been infected with this funny notion that they're human.

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  22. To paraphrase the great Buzz Lightyear, Paul Elam is a sad, strange little man, and he has my pity.

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  23. "I love it. He calls her out for (what he thinks) is an insufficient comeback, then he proceeds to call her "fat.""

    Don't you know? Fat is an "I win" button. No one could ever POSSIBLY be anything worse than fat. I mean, even HITLER wasn't fat. Amirite?

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  24. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  25. Truly, these men stink of unimaginative desperation when they reach for the "fat slur," as though anyone here would actually give two cents. :-)

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  26. Did you notice this? He says most of the people who are actually raped are men in prison. Um...no. The US prison population is something like two million, of which a fair proportion are women jailed for non-violent offenses. They do indeed get raped by male prison guards, but, well, Elam would probably rejoice at that.

    But there's three hundred and seventy some million people in the United States. Let's say about 51 % of those are women. One in four to six will be raped in their lifetimes. What a fucking moron that guy is. Oh, and he wouldn't vote to convict a guilty rapist? Christ.

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  27. "Truly, these men stink of unimaginative desperation when they reach for the "fat slur," as though anyone here would actually give two cents. :-)" Julie Uncanny

    Try bathing and deodorant. It should help with your hygenic problem, the "stink" which you are referring to.

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  28. "Well, he's funnier than you, for starters."---pussypass

    At unintentional humor and making a grandoise, flundering fool out of himself for those thick-heads that are easily amused, correct.

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  29. I had always pictured wytch as a middle aged misogynist, but now that I know he is a third grader who just needs to learn that there is no such thing as cooties, I will try to take it easier on him.

    P.S. Wytch, please do not respond with "I know you are, but what am I." You will learn in about fifth grade that this is not as clever as you seem to think.

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  30. "Wytch, please do not respond with "I know you are, but what am I." You will learn in about fifth grade that this is not as clever as you seem to think."---DSC

    No, I'll leave that for the abyssmal hordes of which you pledge your undying allegance to---the Shallow-as-a-Petri-Dish Guild, of which you are a card caring member for life.

    And don't your let your LARPing ever give you a sense of telling others what to do in real life; it's presumptuous and crass.

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  31. Wow, this thread got childish really fast.

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  32. wytch: flundering is not a real word.

    ginmar Yeah, I noticed that ridiculous claim of his about prison rape; I've heard various MRAs make the same claim and dealt with it in my "further reading" piece on prison rape.

    Here's the relevant section from that post:

    I would like to clear up one Men's Rights Myth: that the number of men raped inside prison is greater than the number of women raped outside of prison. This is simply false; the numbers aren't even close: again, while the estimate of the total number of people (male and female) raped in prison each year is 88,500, estimates of the total number of those raped per year (outside of prison) range from about 200,000 to more than a million (the real number is probably closer to the latter)

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  33. Also Paul links to a page that supposedly proves his contention that prison rapes of men > rapes of women, but the page doesn't actually make that claim.

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  34. sigh am I going to have to link to the DOJ statistic again?

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  35. No, I'll leave that for the abyssmal hordes of which you pledge your undying allegance to---the Shallow-as-a-Petri-Dish Guild, of which you are a card caring member for life.

    This, from the guy whose two best comebacks are "you're fat!" and "you stink!"

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  36. "This, from the guy whose two best comebacks are "you're fat!" and "you stink!""---CB

    And this is coming from the bottomfinder that dubs himself as "Captain Bathrobe," a loser in a Z-grade comic book staring a talentless Adam Sandler look-a-like. Get sterilized.

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  37. Dude---meanign Wytch, yet again----what the fuck? Are you 12? Stop being such a raging asshole. Oh, wait, if you weren't such a screaming sphincter you wouldn't have to blame women for all your problems.

    David, the MRAs are using a new gambit: they're trying to appropriate all forms of murder as examples of 'manocide'. You know the ethnic cleansing that took place during the Bosnia wars? Yeah, the MRAs are claiming that the Muslim men who were selected and eventually executed were killed not because they were Muslim, but because they were men. Jesus.

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  38. ginmar, yeah, I've seen them do that in similar cases -- it's always all about men being oppressed -- but not with Bosnia. Do you have a link? (heck, if you just mention where you saw it I should be able to track it down.)

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  39. so then what of the women in sudan and DRC who are continually gang raped and then killed? The comfort women of Thailand? Cambodian women? The female victims of the holocaust? Not to mention the hundreds of women in bosnia/croatia and rwanda who were forced into sex slavery during those genocides.

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  40. And this is coming from the bottomfinder that dubs himself as "Captain Bathrobe," a loser in a Z-grade comic book staring a talentless Adam Sandler look-a-like. Get sterilized.

    Now, see, this comeback has potential, but it misses the mark. I mean, all you're really doing is making fun of my screen name. Comparing me to Adam Sandler could have been a zinger, but you had to go and make it a "talentless Adam Sandler look-a-like"--which I guess implies that you believe the real Adam Sandler actually has talent, thereby undercutting your position somewhat. And what the hell is a "bottomfinder" anyway? Is that like a dowsing rod that locates booty instead of water? If so, sign me up. As for getting sterilized, I was planning on making an appointment for that very thing. Thanks for the reminder.

    So, yeah, a mediocre effort at best. If I may make a suggestion: insults are best when they contain at least a grain of truth about the person being insulted. Find out what's important to that person, then tweak them about it. For example, I took your painfully crafted "shallow as a petri dish" comment--a turn of phrase about which you were no doubt quite proud--and turned it against you by pointing out your penchant for calling people fat and stinky. That had to have stung a little bit. You, by contrast, just made up a bunch of fanciful shit about my screen name. My first response on reading it was confusion rather than irritation. Your attempted insult didn't sting because it didn't hit me in any vulnerable place; it didn't cleverly mock something I care about, nor did it point out any of my (many) personal faults in a pithy and amusing manner.

    In fact, you probably made a mistake by responding at all, since in doing do you telegraphed that my taunt had found its mark. In such cases, it's usually best to ignore the provocation or respond with some mild self-deprecation or irony (i.e., "yeah, well you're a poopy head!"), thereby demonstrating that you can take it as well as dish it out.

    Just a bit of constructive criticism--make of it what you will.

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  41. undercutting your position somewhat."---CB

    You almost got me, but we actually agree on something---I don't think he's talented, either. But thanks for the articulated response! CB to the rescue! Just don't trip on your frayed attire in an attempt to fly . . .
    I can't be a sardonic asshole all the time, which, admitted, if a feminist called out on it, they might have a partial case. Partial, because there is always a purpose behind what I do.

    "For example, I took your painfully crafted "shallow as a petri dish" comment--a turn of phrase about which you were no doubt quite proud--and turned it against you by pointing out your penchant for calling people fat and stinky."

    Gotta call a spade a spade, and you discounted (or didn't even register) the crafty ways I utilized those slags. Unlike the majority here, which have near seething acidic retorts born of hatred and projections of self-loathing. My are much more fun, because I like fun, lol---and they clearly *don't*. Just tons of hate from the hatin' haters.

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  42. "Comparing me to Adam Sandler could have been a zinger, but you had to go and make it a "talentless Adam Sandler look-a-like"--which I guess implies that you believe the real Adam Sandler actually has talent, thereby undercutting your position somewhat."

    Meant to start my post with this.

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  43. David, it's a thing these days.I wish I could remember where I saw it. MRAs all sound alike after a while. Well, okay, that's because they say the same crap all the time.

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  44. Captain Bathrobe: nor did it point out any of my (many) personal faults

    Well then, allow me. You, Captain Bathrobe, have failed to attain your dream of carving a wood model of every US aircraft carrier of the 20th century. Your hair does not smell of the more pleasant fruits, but rather of boysenberries or perhaps grapes, and your manner of dress is, at best, adequate. You have never successfully corrected for Heisenberg uncertainty, and your posts have never been of such excellence as to induce James Joyce to travel into the future in an attempt to plagiarize them.

    I'm sorry I had to be so harsh but that's been on my chest for a while.

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  45. No worries, trip. For what it's worth, you forgot to mention that my mother was a hamster and my father smelt of elderberries.

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