Non-haters gonna non-hate: NiceGuy Edition

From NiceGuy's MGTOW forum.

Once upon a time one of the guys over at NiceGuy’s MGTOW forum set up a little poll asking his fellow “nice guys” whether or not they actually consider themselves to be misogynists; it’s been up there for years, and the site’s resident MGTOWers have been adding votes and comments all along.  The wording of the poll is sufficiently, ah, flexible enough to give respondents a lot of ways to wiggle out of saying explicitly that they really were misogynists:

* I despise the entire female sex. Period.

* I hate only "western" women.

* I only hate feminists and women who take advantage of sexism.

* I just blame feminists.

* I don't hate women; I just don't like being around them.

* I have no animosity towards women of any group. I'm only here to learn more about MRAs.

Still, given the amount of angry and explicit and completely straightforward misogyny you can find in the forms there, which after all are an outgrowth of a site devoted to the notion that "American women suck," I’m a little bit surprised by how many of the regulars claim not to hate women – as you can see from the graphic above, the most popular answer is the one about “feminists and women who take advantage of sexism,” whatever that means. 

Conveniently, though, many of those who voted in the poll also posted comments explaining their, er, reasoning. And it’s pretty clear that they have a radically different definition of hate than, you know, the dictionary, and/or what everyone else in the world means when they use the word hate. 

Here are some of the comments from guys there who say that they aren’t misogynist. Again, just to make myself clear: these are entirely NON-HATEFUL comments from those who say they DON’T hate women.

Let's start with the completely non-hateful non-hater who calls himself Alpha:

  

I'm not one who hates ... I find that I don't enjoy the company of women very much, as they tend to talk about things I really don't give a crap about. Besides, they really wouldn't like to hear what comes out of my mouth since, if I were to really say what I thought around them without restraint, they would go into knee-jerk, defensive mode. They've been so conditioned to fight and argue with what is simply, to me, a male point of view on things. It's like being around children. ..

I will say this, I love ladies, the female equivalent of a gentleman, a gentlewoman. Unfortunately, that's a rare breed these days. What we have are a bunch of emotionally immature, emotionally unrestrained, emotionally violent, toxic, unappreciative, self-centered, self-absorbed, self-serving, unempathetic, exploitive, arrested adolescents with vaginas, bad attitudes, and an incredible amount of contempt.

Now, I don't mind holding my tongue around ladies. But the moment women declared themselves equal to men, they opened the door to being talked to as men.

And here is committed non-misogynist Zaku:

I voted: "I don't hate women; I just don't like being around them."

Mostly because they have nothing to offer other than whining usually. …

When women talk they make me "ZZZ".

Tiny kitties are honest about their hatreds.

In a followup comment Zaku offered this, well, revealing take on sex with women: 

Maybe it's because I've only done american chicks but to be blunt having sex with a woman is like humping a moist pillow: It doesn't join in and you can hardly tell the difference.

There is something I would dearly like to tell young Zaku at this point but I really can’t think of a delicate way to put it. Hmm. I’ll do it the Dear Abby way. 

  

CONFIDENTIAL TO Z--- on N—G—‘sM---- F---- : You may be doing it wrong. 

 

Our friend MarkyMark popped in to offer his two cents: 

I don't hate women, but, after working with a bunch of them and seeing their true colors, I don't care to be around them. I don't hate sewers, either; I just don't care to spend time in them..

Now if this were anyone but our friend MarkyMark making this comment, I would assume he was making a little joke here. But as far as I have been able to determine, MarkyMark does not actually have a sense of humor. This is, after all, a guy who once devoted a blog post to rebutting, point by point, an article in The Onion. Joke or no, I think we can all agree it's 1) not actually, you know, funny and 2) kind of a douchey thing to say.

Djc added this utterly non-misogynistic comment to the pile: 

I can't stand to be around them for too long. It's not hatred. I just can't stand stupid people. Male, or female. And there is no question most American females are dripping with delusions, which in my book makes them stupid. And I'm at a point where women have nothing I really need. So it's a complete waste of my time to even talk to one

And then there is this, from strigoi:

i merely hate feminists, those women who latch onto sexism and how it has infected most of society. I aim for the cancer at the heart of the problem, they are the ones that need to be hanged.

I guess technically, that’s not misogyny. But I don't think I'll be inviting this guy over for dinner any time soon.

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Saturday links: Not-so-nice Nice Guys and not-so-hypergamous women

Links

A couple of interesting posts on topics near and dear to readers here:

Amanda Marcotte takes on "Nice Guys," and the oft-repeated notion that women seek out abusers and assholes to date:

My counter-theory is that Nice Guys® group together traits like confidence with aggression, so they can convince themselves that confident men are always assholes, and thus that they’re being unfairly deprived of pussy by women who are sick fucks that enjoy being abused.  Are some confident men abusive assholes?  Absolutely; look at Charlie Sheen.  But are all confident men?  ... [W]hat I can say is I’ve known many men who are great husbands/boyfriends and are also confident ... Some shy men are also very nice people, just shy.  But many shy men are inconsiderate fuckwits or even wife-beaters.  I just don’t think there’s a strong correlation between “alpha"-ness and basic human decency. 

And a couple of posts on some new research on gender and casual sex that challenges a lot of manosphere myths about women and hypergamy, suggesting that: 1) women, in general, are as interested in casual sex as men, so long as they feel they will be safe and 2) women, in general, aren't so addled by their alleged hypergamous proclivities that they actually find Donald Trump to be attractive.  In fact, the study suggests, women considering casual sex are driven by a desire for, er, hot sex with a dude who won't kill them and who they think will be good in bed, not by a desire to get their claws into some random rich dude. Or, as the paper itself puts it:

Sexual strategies theory clearly predicts that higher status proposers should be accepted by women more readily than low-status proposers. The fact that status did not predict women’s acceptance of casual sex offers is therefore a problem for SST. Neither status, nor tendency for gift giving, nor perceived faithfulness of the proposer (nor, more precisely, the interaction of any of these variables with gender) predicted whether a participant would agree to the sexual offer, contradicting SST.

Here's a brief summary of the research. And here's a more detailed (if a bit convoluted) discussion from Thomas on Yes Means Yes, from which I got the above quote.


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If you enjoyed this post, would you kindly* use the "Share This" or one of the other buttons below to share it on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, or wherever else you want. I appreciate it.

*Yes, that was a Bioshock reference.