The urinal sparked a protest from a feminist organization, and after receiving more than 1000 letters on the subject, the restaurant owner removed the urinal.
The regulars in MensRights on Reddit heard about the incident, and the following conversation took place. You may want to note the numbers of upvotes and downvotes each comment got.
(Yes, the last guy did use the obnoxious term "retard." There is some irony there. Somehow I suspect that is not why he was downvoted.)
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Please folks, please make this a link happy comment section. Please link to equivalent feminist man hate. I really really want to see the equivalent out there. THIS is SPARTAMISOGYNY and I believe the only way to get this in perspective is to get some equivalency links going here. What other relevant commentary could there be that is not going to beg the equivalency question?
ReplyDeleteLet's Roll, and...hey, let's be careful out there.
Don't knock it until you try it. If you haven't been pee'd on (or in, in this case), you don't know what yer missing.
ReplyDeleteYeah, a lot of men like it too, and female supremacy too. These guys really shouldn't knock female supremacy till they try it. I agree.
ReplyDeleteAlso assault by a stranger for stating your opinion like when poster oohhhh says, "I would definitely assault this person."
And women's groups make the first poster want to assault women. And for one millisecond these people that spend all day whining about female supremacy cannot imagine a world that would make fun of them as a urinal, even though they whine all day on blogs like manboobz.
Not lookin good for team MRA here, this game calls for an extreme play of equivalency, come on let's see some links team MRA.
"Please folks, please make this a link happy comment section. Please link to equivalent feminist man hate. I really really want to see the equivalent out there."
ReplyDeleteAsk and you shall receive.
http://gynarchy.org/wordpress/
http://www.sensations4women.com/
http://menareslaves.com/
http://cfnmhumiliation.org/
http://www.femdomcity.com/
http://www.freefemdom.org/
http://femdomforum.com/index.rhtml
http://cfnmfemdom.net/
http://www.meangirlsclub.com/
http://femdom-cfnm.net/
http://www.femdomdestiny.com/
http://www.hospitalfemdom.com/
http://cfnmvideos.sexbiro.com/
http://slavesinhell.com/
http://taylormadefemdom.com/
http://www.extremefemdomstories.com/
http://www.downonmyknees.com/archives/stories_by_others/william_learns_that_he_is.php
Now what's all this about a urinal shaped like a woman's mouth?
If even a FRACTION of the material online was as misogynistic as this material is misandric you would be SCA-REEEEEEEMIN!
Evilwhitemaleempire, how about trying to make a genuine effort, not just posting a bunch of stuff about bdsm and dominatrices, okay?
ReplyDeleteUnless you think that being a dominatrix is really about hating men and not about providing a sexual service to men who like getting tied up and spanked. In which case ... well, it's hard to argue with people who have a distorted view of reality.
I'll try to clue you in, as much as you're not going to listen: If a dominatrix tells men that they're lowly, boot-licking ass-monkeys, they get a boner. If a man calls all American women skanks and c***s, he's not trying to arouse anyone. He's just being hateful.
Apples, meet oranges. Oranges, apples.
BTW do not even try and start with "Well these women aren't real feminists" tripe.
ReplyDeleteMost of us don't go around shooting people but you have no problem lumping all of us together.
You want to generalize us?
You want to conflate anti-feminism with the Taliban?
Go right ahead.
You get the same thing right back.
Sorry, evil dude, those are links to fetish sites.
ReplyDeleteAs for "lumping together," this site is about misogyny. I write about misogynists. Some of them are MRAs or MGTOWs or PUAs. Some aren't. If someone I quote isn't an MRA, I don't claim that he is an MRA.
As for shooters. Nowhere did I suggest in any way that Loughner was an MRA; I suggested that violent rhetoric was a bad thing, and I quoted some vile comments from some MRA/MGTOW sites on the subject. I didn't force any of those people to say that Daniel Hernandez should have left Giffords to die. I didn't force any of the dozens of people who upvoted those comments to upvote them.
The sites I quote from are mainstream MRA/MGTOW sites, heavily trafficked sites.
IF you don't think the sites I'm looking at count as "real" MRA or MGTOW sites, then suggest some that you think do fairly represent the MRM or MGTOW.
"Unless you think that being a dominatrix is really about hating men and not about providing a sexual service to men who like getting tied up and spanked. In which case ... well, it's hard to argue with people who have a distorted view of reality."
ReplyDeleteEspecially when that distorted view includes such false dichotomies as "All doms either hate men OR provide some men with sexual services".
Perceptions so distorted by ideology that it's impossible to see the forest for the trees.
I'll try to clue you in, as much as you're not going to listen:
It's when you google femdom and get about a bazzilion hits. But if you do the same for 'male-dom' or similar you find next to none.
For all his 'priviledge' it would appear that in this oppressive, capitalist patriarchy a white hetrosexual man must go to great lengths to get his rocks off on what every feminist worth her salt knows he craves so very much.
"Sorry, evil dude, those are links to fetish sites."
ReplyDeleteSo you're saying this in not misogyny?
http://www.tiedpussy.com/maledom.html
Glad to know we're on the same page.
I always enjoyed this link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.the-niceguy.com/articles/EvilGuyHateful.html
evil, that site is a fetish site too.
ReplyDeleteIt's a dangerous world we live in when people can't tell the difference between threats of assault and consensual fetish play.
ReplyDeleteIt'll be a shame if people get caught up responding to guys like evilempire and ignore guys like Dr. Deezee, who seems to be a basically decent person who sincerely holds some set of these stereotypic MRA beliefs.
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of quotes at the link he provides that are interesting and worth discussing. But NOTHING is worth discussing with angry people who only want to pick a fight. Ignore those people. Really.
Really.
I hold no beliefs. I just troll tough. ;[
ReplyDeleteAha! I thought maybe you were a Cerebus acolyte. Good to know you!
ReplyDeleteYou know how it goes in a professional dungeon?
ReplyDeleteThe male client goes to the professional Dominatrix, and says, "This is my fetish and I want you do to this to me." The Dominatrix quotes him a price, he pays, and she proceeds to do exactly what he asked her to do. It's different in lifestyle arrangements, but there's still quite a lot of negotiation that goes on behind the scenes to make sure everyone gets what they want out of it. No one is being forced, there are safe words and boundaries and mutual respect and pleasure.
And yes, there are female submissives, whom you can pay to spank. However, I advise against going to one if you just want to beat up on a woman. Submissive in this context doesn't mean weak, and both subs and Doms can spot a dude with women issues from a mile away.
And there are quite a lot of male Doms out there. However, they don't have many sites because so many men are willing to top for free that women don't really have to pay for it. There are also fewer kinky women than kinky men. Perhaps you will accuse this of being sexist, but it's not a conspiracy hatched by Evil Feminists to defraud men - it's the way the free market works. Women have a far easier time finding a man who's either into her kink or willing to accommodate her than vice versa.
"David Futrelle said...
ReplyDeleteevil, that site is a fetish site too."
No shit Sherlock.
But did you answer my question?
OK, let me be more clear.
ReplyDeleteFeminist sites laughing about wanting to pee on men in comment sections.
No services men pay for because they like it. Now, here is an interesting topic. There are abuses in the filming of those things, and often times pornography is the documented abuse of prostitutes. I cannot speak for the performers we just know from people that have exited the work that say that they had to work themselves up to it, or felt they had no other job to take, some viewed it as a fear factor type thing, where you just focus on the money and many take drugs to get through what they do.
I am not comfortable saying "it's different for men" because while they speak out less, they certainly do seem to drop like flies from suicides and over doses.
Because the layman knows not what they see, it's best not to try to use that medium to prove general points, you have to be very specific and know what you're talking about. One thing you might want to do is google and look at the numbers of sites that come up. Also keep in mind that mostly, this is men's fetish on the one hand...aaaaaaannnnd men's fetish on the other hand, too.
Ok, so equivalent would be feminists laughing about peeing on men in comment sections and saying that men's groups make them want to assault men. Not saying that does not exist.
Also the equivalent would be a business available to the general public like a restaurant humiliating a man like that, and people not getting it . "Huh? What's wrong with this?" I wonder if we can find one.
"Because the layman knows not what they see, it's best not to try to use that medium to prove general points,"
ReplyDeleteAnd feminists have NEVER used that medium to prove general points. Gotcha!
"Also keep in mind that mostly, this is men's fetish on the one hand...aaaaaaannnnd men's fetish on the other hand, too."
But NOT women's fetish on the one hand...aaaaaaaaaannnnd women's fetish on the other as well.
Masochist male OK.
Masochist female not OK.
Sadist female OK.
Sadist male not OK.
Got that too.
"Ok, so equivalent would be feminists laughing about peeing on men in comment sections and saying that men's groups make them want to assault men. Not saying that does not exist."
So your saying it does?
"Also the equivalent would be a business available to the general public like a restaurant humiliating a man like that, and people not getting it . "Huh? What's wrong with this?" I wonder if we can find one."
For all I know there could be loads of anti-male stuff like that in ladies rooms.
Evil: The urinal wasn't BDSM-themed. It was pee-on-women-themed.
ReplyDeleteFor all I know there could be loads of anti-male stuff like that in ladies rooms.
"For all you know" -- a nifty way of saying you DON'T know, and have no basis for assuming.
Seriously? Whoah, you need to check it out. One of the greatest comics of all time, and the author has a lot of these stereotypic MRA beliefs, but when someone says that, he always says "I don't have any beliefs."
ReplyDeleteNot sure if he's ever said "I just troll hard" but it strikes me as the sort of thing he would say. Anyway, enjoy!
"And feminists have NEVER used that medium to prove general points. Gotcha!"
ReplyDeleteThere can be a LOT of incorrect analysis drawn from trying to make general points. How is this a gotcha to me? I'd really like to know that stretch. Also there is really really crappy information out there from feminists that call themselves "sex positive" and they are basically elitists living in a fantasy world of false dichotomies where the church is their big enemy and everything is looked at through that lens.
Lots of people have used that medium to make dumb points about this or that. But there are tons of feminists that can and do give detailed analysis about sex industry topics. I have seen that there are reasonable an unreasonable people from every branch of ideology when it comes to this topic.
Now on to your "ok, and NOT ok strawman.
May I first say.. HA HA LOL
I said that both directions of this fetish are largely fueled by the male pocket book. This is ONLY an industry statement. There are plenty of females into BDSM. Are they the ones on film? Also in private BDSM I'll bet you a dollar it's mostly kidsplay and on the whole and not as extreme as the torture you see online.
I don't know enough about it right now, I have some research questions I don't have answered yet, because I'm busy with other avenues. But I would def love to interview a bunch of those performers.
"So your saying it does?"
Another LOL. No you're the one that talks about things they don't know about. Me saying "not saying that does not exist" would not be me saying it does because I take information very seriously. Grow up. I am saying what you never do, "I DON'T KNOW", also what's implied is a nice "I wouldn't be surprised"
but again, I would suggest that anything you find is going to be small scale. I'm interested in the comparison, so far people have turned up jack shit, haven't they?
Let's change the stakes here, since we're dealing with a gender dynamic and sometimes the dynamics ARE apples and oranges, I change my challenge.
Is there anything out there that you guys can find that would make you FEEL like this? Is there a DIFFERENT male equivalent?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFWIW, I don't really care about the urinal issue. I was troubled by the talk of violence in the comments I cited, and the fact that the most plaintly violent of the bunch got lots of upvotes.
ReplyDeleteevil, within the context of consensual BDSM:
Masochist male OK.
Masochist female OK.
Sadist female OK.
Sadist male OK.
Sexual fantasies are often not PC. When acted out with others who freely consent to the acts, they're fine. Consent is the key here. It's not abuse. It's consensual sex. BDSM has rules.
People who engage in it aren't misogynists or misandrists. People who genuinely DO have hatred for the opposite sex are not good BDSM partners; they're actually quite dangerous, and they're shunned in the BDSM community.
Again, the issue is consent.
Punching someone in the face is illegal. If however you are a boxer and the guy you punch is a boxer and you're fighting in a ring and you both consent to it, that's fine. It's not assault and battery. It's a sport. It has rules.
Raul -
ReplyDeleteI tried googling and couldn't figure out what you were talking about. Link?
Also, if pro Dommes could wear whatever they wanted, do you think they'd still stuff themselves into tight leather corsets and six-inch platform heels?
ReplyDeleteNo.
They wear those things because it turns on their clients. It's still about male fantasy and male desire (note: I'm speaking of professional Dommes here. I imagine there are quite a few women who manage to privately top their male partners in flip-flops and sweats, but those women generally don't have websites. Though Rule 34 says there *must* be some site somewhere about Dominas in Pajamas or whatnot).
Wow. Just wow.
ReplyDeleteThe best example y'all could come up with of "feminist man hate" is BDSM websites?
Riiiight. Because these are bastions of ... feminism?
What the motherfucking fuck are you smoking?
If you want to criticize feminism, learn what it is and how to distinguish it from pornography and the sex trade.
Gotta go. Due back on the planet Earth.
@doc:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebus_the_Aardvark
Booboonation:
ReplyDelete'Gotcha' as in "Now I get it." (but sarcastic)
David:
"I don't really care about the urinal issue"
Yet you saw fit to post about it.
"BDSM has rules."
So do nudie bars (no touching, etc.)
Yet feminists criticize them. Rules or no. Why don't you?
I take it your a sex pos feminist.
Like porn? You let women run too much stuff and they'll get that shit banned. Don't believe me? Take a look at Iceland.
Many young feminists may be sex positive now. But wait till they get in their late 30's and start loosing their looks. You'll see how 'sex positive' feminists are then David.
"Sexual fantasies are often not PC. When acted out with others who freely consent to the acts, they're fine. Consent is the key here. It's not abuse. It's consensual sex. BDSM has rules."
You think the likes of Hugh Hefner or Larry Flint haven't tried telling that to feminists? You think they were successful?
Joe:
"The best example y'all could come up with of "feminist man hate" is BDSM websites?"
Not 'y'all' just me.
And yes it IS a good example.
Why? Because it's politically incorrect even to DEPICT a woman being tied up, whipped, beaten, etc. but a white dude is fair game.
Y'alls willful ignorance of the fact that it IS politically correct to hate anything so long as it is straight, white and male is egregious beyong belief.
What the motherfuck have YOU been smoking?
I think if you've never heard of there being woman submissives in the world of BDSM then you really aren't paying enough attention. The overwhelming majority of women in the BDSM community are NOT dominatrices.
ReplyDeleteIt is really obnoxious to use a subculture of which you are not a part to make an incorrect political point.
ReplyDeleteSigned,
A female submissive/switch.
The best is when they analogize an attractive woman going to a frat party to a white guy walking around in a black neighborhood. Two bigotries for the price of one!
ReplyDelete"It is really obnoxious to use a subculture of which you are not a part to make an incorrect political point."
ReplyDeleteAn incorrect political point or a politically incorrect point?
I have learned how the left rationalizes much of it's hypocracy from this thread.
By using details to obscure/deny general trends and by having lots of 'non-feminists' do much of their dirty work.
If instead of fetish sites I had pointed out the "Boys are stupid throw rocks at them" thing you all would have just said "Well that artist guy is not a feminist and doesn't claim to be."
FYI the true test of 'equivalency' HERE is if a kid could go to school with a t-shirt saying "Girls are stupid put them all in special ed" or something similar and NOT end up being made to change...
OR
a kid who wore a "Boys are stupid-" shirt WAS made to change.
Your argument is to create an imaginary situation regarding a mythical t-shirt at a hypothetical school?
ReplyDeleteThis all seems rather typical of MRA rhetoric. Creating problems that don't actually exist - creating imaginary boogeymen and fallacious disadvantages. You were asked to come up with an actual example, failed to do so, and resorted to an unarguable dilemma based on some imaginary situation.
The difference between male bashing and female bashing is that male bashing is done by many women in all walks of life in public-at work, at bars, in the mainstream media; female bashing is done in anonymous chat rooms usually by a few adolescents who are just talking trash.
ReplyDeleteJohnny said...
ReplyDelete"Your argument is to create an imaginary situation regarding a mythical t-shirt at a hypothetical school?"
"The overwhelming majority of women in the BDSM community are NOT dominatrices."
Your argument is to create imaginary statistics to support a highly dubious conclusion?
"creating imaginary boogeymen"
Not my specialty. See feminists for that.
Oh, you ARE a feminist I take it. Well then problem solved.
"You were asked to come up with an actual example, failed to do so"
Correct. I came up with a shit load of 'em.
The Biscuit Queen said...
"The difference between male bashing and female bashing is that male bashing is done by many women in all walks of life in public-at work, at bars, in the mainstream media; female bashing is done in anonymous chat rooms usually by a few adolescents who are just talking trash."
Women, unlike men, can talk trash openly without getting fired from their jobs.
Behold Johnny, my "fallacious disadvantage". (eyes roll)
No, you're making up an imaginary problem again. Again, you're coming up with an imaginary, hypothetical example. I work in employment law, and have spoken with people that were fired over things with this.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the media goes. The market determines what is popular, am I right? The reason you don't see certain depictions in media is because people don't actually want to see them. If people were clamoring for men bitching about women you'd see it.
What is your disadvantage? That there are things that people don't like to hear you bitch about? That there are words people don't like to hear you say? Newsflash: People frown upon those things for a reason. There is a reason why cultural discourse is stamping them out. It's because the discourse finds such things unproductive. If people actually wanted to listen to the sociopolitical class that dominates virtually every sector of life bitch about how awful their class has it, then this wouldn't be a problem for you - but as it turns out, they don't. It's philosophy acting in a rather economic, capitalist way. Supply and demand. Your view has been found outmoded, unprofitable, and contrary to economic progress as well as political progress. This is why traditional gender roles are disappearing. Times are slowly but surely changing apace, and you can sit there and play the world's smallest fiddle while Rome burns, or realize that maybe you're part of the problem.
Complaining that you can't talk trash about women without suffering consequences is like a TV show that no one watches complaining that it got canceled.
I'll add that, as a middle class, white, American male, I don't feel that I've lost any rights by not being able to complain about how "great" women have it. In fact, I find myself abundantly satisfied at the options available to me in life.
ReplyDelete"The market determines what is popular, am I right?"
ReplyDelete"It's philosophy acting in a rather economic, capitalist way. Supply and demand."
Don't try to pass yourself off as a capitalist.
"What is your disadvantage? That there are things that people don't like to hear you bitch about?"
You bet.
"That there are words people don't like to hear you say?"
Right again.
Your a genius!
"Newsflash: People frown upon those things for a reason. There is a reason why cultural discourse is stamping them out."
Because when classical discourse failed to spread it reinvented itself as cultural discourse. But when the Nazis kicked it out of Germany it fled to America where it eventually took over the colleges and now routinely infects young men such as yourself.
"Times are slowly but surely changing apace, and you can sit there and play the world's smallest fiddle while Rome burns, or realize that maybe you're part of the problem."
You'd better believe I'm part of the problem.
And you're out of your indoctrinated mind if you think anti-feminism, MRA's, MGTOW, etc. is going to go away.
I don't think I'm out of my indoctrinated mind at all. The ideas MRAs think so highly of were once dominant. They've dwindled to the outermost fringes. Nothing indicates to me that this trend wont continue. Many people have internalized its ideas and some of its ideas remain trenchant - but this is the residue of a dying past, not an indication of a new spread.
ReplyDeleteAs far as capitalism goes, you don't know the first thing about me or my economic philosophy - friendo. At any rate, explaining a phenomenon in terms of capitalism doesn't necessarily make me a capitalist or demonstrate that I'm trying to pass myself off as one.
You'll have to explain the Nazi connection to me, you lost me there. I'm sure it would be very interesting reading, in the sense that so much of what MRAs write is "interesting" to me. Then again, it might just be that indoctrination working again.
It is not that men want to openly trash talk women, it is the double standard.
ReplyDeleteI am not even a man and I am sick to death of hearing women (and men) openly bash men. Many don't even realize they are doing it. They notice really fast when you refuse to join in or find it funny.
I think all MRA's and most men would be perfectly happy if it because uncool to bash EITHER gender.
"I think all MRA's ... would be perfectly happy if it because uncool to bash EITHER gender."
ReplyDeleteSo you're a comedian now?