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| Atlas Tugged (Charles Atlas vs. the Rockettes.) |
Still, the would-be Atlases of the manosphere do sometimes manage to fluff up this tired old fantasy with some inventive new ideas of their own. Consider the recent advice given by dad_savage on the Antimisandry.com message boards. dad starts out with a fairly standard-issue articulation of the MGTOW Shrugs fantasy:
The Government calculates tax on a basis of expecting men to earn many times more than they need to simply live. Men only do this if there are incentives; the no.1 incentives are women and community respect; Feminism will take these away, and men will stop working hard to obtain them. Feminism, indeed all liberalism, will be starved of the revenue it must have. Women will no longer be subsidized to live fairy-tail lives benefiting from male largess whether directly through husbands, sugar daddies, Johns or indirectly through the state-as-husband. Women are financially, physically and emotionally dependant on men so all we need to do is cut them off.
Fairy-tail? I'm pretty sure fairies have wings, not tails. In any case, dad_savage contends that the jig will be up for the ladies sometimes in the next ten years. He hopes to speed up the process a little bit by offering some specific "tips for living a fun life and fighting feminism in the most effective way possible." Here they are:
Get a Public Sector job, or do 'Women's Work' - Try working as a Garbage Man, Mail Man, or some other Council or State position. ... most Government employees are women so you'll have a lot of chance to practise game, and antagonize them by refusing to be a mangina. ... Working in the public sector or in a female-dominated industry ensures that your not feeding the beast, but in reality sucking its blood, and will benefit from sexist policies and tax-funnelling subsidies designed to improve the lot of the workers in these female-dominated areas.
Be Rich, Scrape By or Play Robin Hood - Either earn just enough money to enjoy the lifestyle you desire (and think about what it is you really need!) or be a somebody so that you can use clever accounting to maximize the amount of tax you dodge. ...
He's got some odder ideas as well:
Use cunning and intelligence to discern those forces truly destructive to feminism, and aid them. Islamic organizations for example do untold damage to feminist aspirations, Sharia courts in the UK are for example rebalancing some divorce-based iniquity, and Muslims can hide behind accusations of racism just as effectively as feminist's can behind sexism.
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| MGTOW patron saint? |
A thing need not be 'activism based,' to have an activist effect; pornography, prostitution and other forms of sexual proxy are powerful kinds of activism available to men as they make going your own way more accessible especially to young libidinous men.
This next big of advice is a tad, well, convoluted, but seems rock-solid otherwise:
Tell The Truth, And Let Reason Guide - An example, you let a woman off the train before you holding the door for her, and she doesn't thank you. Annoyed you stomp past her, and exiting the station you're looked over by a rough looking youth with an air of being up to no good, but he leaves you alone. You're sure he's a mugger, and will probably go after the woman who is coming along behind you. Now let's say you chose to help, would you do it for the opportunity to redress her for her rudeness earlier? 'You didn't even thank me for holding the door open, but had I not been that kind of man I wouldn't have come back to help, can you not understand why you should appreciate such sentiment?' seems fair to me. On the flipside you could chose not to help (the choice is of course your own once you've weighed the pros and cons in a way that seems wise to you) or you could help if you like on the basis that she's attractive, and demand her phone number as payment (I see nothing wrong with this) the point is don't help just because.
So to sum up:
1) Get a job at the DMV or somewhere else in the public sector, and pester the women who are working there.
2) Either earn nothing or become a rich tax dodger.
3) Support Sharia law
4) Buy porn and hire hookers
5) If a woman is rude to you when you're getting off a train, and then she gets mugged, rescue her just so you can tell her off afterwards, or maybe get her number. Or don't rescue her.
I don't know about you, but to me this sounds like a foolproof plan.
--
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I haven't read the whole post yet - but something just struck me.
ReplyDeleteThe MGTOW boys are always complaining about hypergamy - if they consider themselves to be all Randian Altases then presumably all those women seeking alpha males would be all over them.
I am amazed at the idea that some men would choose to structure their life according to the philosophy of 'Women Suck.' I mean, choosing a career based solely on being able to keep (largely imaginary) women away from your stuff? Heavens forfend that a single woman gain even a tiny benefit from just one of your tax dollars!
ReplyDeleteAnd feminism teaches women to find a man to take care of them? Since when? I rather thought feminism was all about teaching women to be able to take care of themselves, without having to rely on someone else.
The 'Sharia law' comment, about reducing the supposed iniquity in divorce is also telling. Apparently, the only way to avoid iniquity is to put the woman at a disadvantage.
I wonder if these guys know that it was just revealed Ayn Rand was on Social Security and Medicare at the end of her life?
This is one of the most entertaining blogs on the internet.
ReplyDeleteThe best part is that these guys hate feminists, but sound a lot more like the way-out-there feminists who formed "female only" communities than they probably realize.
MRA's hoping for the government's collapse? What morons! Don't they know anything? No way America will collapse! We can afford any and everything that the feminists want or laws they want to enact! Crazy MRA's. Collapse? Sheeeit!
ReplyDeleteNo way.
14,161,942,928,660 national debt.
What collapse?
California: $53.7 billion shortfall or 58 percent of its budget
What the hell do MRA's know?
Camden NJ may have to cut it's police force by 40%.
Nope. No chance of this country collapsing. Crazy MRA's. Everything is as smooth as a feminist's leg.
Random Brother
@random
ReplyDeleteRiiiiight, because feminists are ... somehow responsible for the national debt, and California's debt, and New York's debt.
Because feminists invented SIPs and credit default swaps.
Because feminists were running the SEC and the Fed during the housing bubble.
Because Madoff and other people in the financial industry who defrauded investors out of billions of dollars were taking orders from ... feminists.
Because everyone who bought a mortgage they couldn't afford, and defaulted on it, was a feminist.
Because government spending is controlled by ... feminists. And the majority of it goes for feminist programs such as ... the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Riiiiiight.
Don't forget the 23% of our national budget that goes into defense. I hear the Department of Defense is LOUSY with feminists!
ReplyDeleteSexist men spend half their time complaining about women wanting them to hold doors, and the other half complaining about women not wanting them to hold doors. This guy kind of gets in both attitudes at the same time: he's going to hold doors for women *just so he can get pissy at the ones who don't like it.* You can't win for losing sometimes.
ReplyDeleteHere's how it works, guys, though I don't expect you to understand it: When you perform an unasked-for favor, like holding a door for a stranger, you're doing it out of the goodness of your heart. You're not doing it for a reward. If you're going to get angry and stomp around pouting when you don't get whatever reward you wanted, please JUST DON'T DO THE FAVOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. You'll be happier, the other person will be happier, we'll all be better off.
Is it annoying when people don't appreciate favors? Absolutely. I've often held doors for elderly people or parents with strollers, only to have them brush past me like I don't exist. But, you know, big deal. I didn't hold the door so they'd fall to their knees praising my princely largesse. I did it because maybe they needed help, and it was a polite thing to do.
This is why women avoid you. Because you only treat them like human beings if you think you can get something out of them, and when you don't get it you sulk and pout and throw tantrums. Nobody likes being manipulated like that.
(Cue a half-dozen MRAs: "But WOMEN manipulate people! That's like WOMEN's main thing! I saw it in a 'Lockhorns' cartoon so it's true! I should get to do it because WOMEN did it first, blah blah blah...")
Comically, I have seen many Objectivists and Libertarians threaten to get low-paying jobs so they won't have to pay taxes. I wish they meant it. Garbage collectors do useful work.
I guess everything is nice and smooth then since my legs are extremely soft. :)
ReplyDeleteshaenon, just wanted to point out that you can be a feminist and a libertarian too (I'm not I'm a green party member, however my bf who is also a feminist is staunchly libertarian and it frustrates him when people try telling him that he is less than of one or the other because of that stance.
ReplyDeletecarswell-- No, no, no. Women are all over "alphas", which are (depending on the misogynist, the argument and the phase of the moon) either thuggish, aloof assholes or rich dudes. This is what was attractive to cavewomen, apparently.
ReplyDeleteThe MGTOW are betas, who apparently hold up society. It is the contention of the MGTOWs that for their invaluable contributions as IT guys and corporate drones, they should be rewarded with pussy, and if they aren't they shall take their balls and go home and see how well you can run a civilization with nothing but aloof alpha assholes and rich guys.
"earn just enough money to enjoy the lifestyle you desire (and think about what it is you really need!)"
ReplyDeleteThis is MGTOW? I thought this was just being raised Scottish.
@ Joe
ReplyDeleteWhere did I say any of that? Show me, where? Stop projecting.
The point is that the U.S. is in the financial shit house and the question is what gets cut? Many of the "laws" and services feminists have come to expect will likely be cut. Barring some sort of financial miracle it would seem unstoppable. The reach of government, if you will, will be lessened and that is good for men as it will lessen government overreach and intrusive feminists policies, IMHO.
If I'm wrong about this, kindly show me how.
Random Brother
Joe, I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. Camden NJ wouldn't even need all those police if it weren't completely overrun with evil feminist gangs.
ReplyDeleteHere is a picture of one of these gangs in action:
http://www.shoplesnouvelles.com/stylenotes/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/pink-ladies-grease-1009.jpg
@ David
ReplyDeleteAh, David. All wisecracks, no wisdom.
Random Brother
shaenon, the other odd thing about the whole holding doors scenario of dad savage is that ... subway doors open by themselves, when the conductor hits a button, and are generally kept open until everyone who is getting off has gotten off. (And then, until those getting on have gotten on, which generally happens second, after everyone has gotten off, except when really rude people try to get on before everyone has gotten off.) There is literally no chance of his imaginary scenario ever taking place.
ReplyDeleteOnce in a while people will block doors from closing so stragglers can get ON a train, but that's different and generally has zilch to do with gender.
"Because you only treat them like human beings if you think you can get something out of them, and when you don't get it you sulk and pout and throw tantrums."
ReplyDeleteIsn't that what some of these men accuse all women of doing to all men?
richard, we're in the shitter now because of the bursting of the housing bubble and other assorted financial flim-flammery. Feminism has nothing to do with it. The resulting recession has caused tax revenues to plummet, hence the deficits and the cuts. The deficits have been exacerbated by the enormous costs of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq; the financial bailout was badly handled but prevented an even worse collapse; the stimulus package was also necessary to stave off an even worse recession, which would have caused tax revenues to plummet even further.
ReplyDeleteI actually write about this shit for a living and have discussed these issues with some of the leading economists of our time.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/24/pf/rajan_housing_bubble.moneymag/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/19/magazines/moneymag/joseph_stiglitz_economy.moneymag/index.htm?postversion=2010051113
@ David
ReplyDeleteI have no beef with you about how we got into this mess, especially the unnecessary wars bit, however the question remains what gets cut? Who has the pull to keep their programs? If it's feminsts vs something that generally benefits men, I know the men will get screwed. However, if its feminist vs the military industrial complex, well, I don't think even feminists can pull that off.
In the end I suspect that no money/limited money = no/limited VAWA enforcement, child support enforcement, restraining order enforcement, feminst programs, etc.
Random Brother
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteRandom Brother, a lot of those "feminist" programs benefit children, half of whom are going to be men someday. Child support, for example, which helps feed and clothe and care for children of both sexes.
ReplyDeleteAs much as some men seem to think child support is a ticket to luxury, the average amount of child support received per year is $4300. That's small enough -- how much lower do you think it would be if it weren't enforced?
richard, the only specific example you gave in your first comment of the effects of budget cuts was Camden NJ cutting police. Police protection isn't a "feminist program" that only or even primarily benefits women. In fact, given that men are more likely to be the victim of violent crimes, it arguably is more valuable for men. Not sure how this would be, as you suggested "good for men."
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI held a subway door open for a woman once. Not only did she not thank me, but everyone on the train started yelling at me and this warning light above my head was being all "doink doink doink."
ReplyDeleteWhy is being a man in America so hard? :(
Actually the bit that seems to escape supporters of the Atlas shrugged theory is that in the past when huge number of men have been taken out of the labour market (eg WW1 WW2)(and soldiers pay is absolutely crap) women have stepped up to the plate in whatever roles where needed and society kept functioning very well thanks very much. Now that many graduates of traditional occupations are almost gender equal - eg engineering etc - which doesn't translate into actual jobs for women despite the quals, I doubt there would be much of a ripple at all. Working in the heavy engineering sector for the last 15 years in my experience, guys with views similar to those posted above, are the most likely to be screaming 'over my dead body' if they think a woman might get a job on a par with or in the same profession as them and are the ones most likely to sabotage.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who has now been working in government for five years-having more men working for government in places like the MVD would be a great thing to have happen.
ReplyDeleteAs the father of two young children, I would be very, very sorry if programs like Paid Family Leave (in CA) were to get cut. In my experience, programs that are perceived as primarily benefiting women really do benefit everyone.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure our MRA friends would agree if they took a minute to consider the matter.
(Doesn't hold breath.)
David-- Yes, there are many hilarious details to this fantasy of karmic justice. My favorite is how, after railing about how much he hates this imaginary woman and wants her to get beaten and robbed for being such an imaginary bitch to him, he imagines he would also like to take her on a date. WHY DO YOU WANT TO DATE A WOMAN WHO TREATS YOU LIKE SHIT EVEN IF SHE IS IMAGINARY OH CHRIST YOU PEOPLE ARE BEYOND ASSISTANCE.
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who has a similarly extraterrestrial approach to the opposite sex. He's not a misogynist like these guys, but his notions of what women want and how he can provide it are so peculiar that I don't even know where to begin offering advice. It's like trying to explain how to launch a satellite into translunar orbit to a guy who thinks the earth is flat. You end up spending eight hours reassuring him that this won't knock a hole in the celestial sphere where the stars are painted, and by then you just want to go home and put on Netflix.
And then later he throws a rock into the air and it whacks him on the head and he comes complaining to you because *you said it would stay up.*
Just not worth it.
shaenon, I guess you and I will never understand the higher mental processes of the Atlases of this world.
ReplyDeleteIt's like trying to explain how to launch a satellite into translunar orbit to a guy who thinks the earth is flat.
ReplyDeleteIt's only February and we already have a candidate for best analogy of the year. Nice.
@ jupiter9
ReplyDeleteIf there is no money for enforcement? I'd say a lot less. Especially for those men paying for kids that aren't biologically their own.
Random Brother
@ David
ReplyDeleteI had a long post that I got from N.O.W about California cutting the budget to many shelters but the internet ate it, so, I'll just follow with this. Already domestic violence shelters are being under funded, what happens when our creditors stop lending us money or reduce the amount of money we are lent? I'd guess many things we've come to expect will be gone.
As far the loss of police. If places like NJ would allow people to properly arm themselves you'd need less police anyway. That would be good for men as most men want a less intrusive government.
Random Brother
@ Captain Bathrobe
ReplyDeleteCaptain Bathrobe said: "As the father of two young children, I would be very, very sorry if programs like Paid Family Leave (in CA) were to get cut. In my experience, programs that are perceived as primarily benefiting women really do benefit everyone.
I'm sure our MRA friends would agree if they took a minute to consider the matter.
(Doesn't hold breath.)"
Doesn't help the business owner.
Random Brother
"Islamic organizations for example do untold damage to feminist aspirations, Sharia courts in the UK are for example rebalancing some divorce-based iniquity, and Muslims can hide behind accusations of racism just as effectively as feminist's can behind sexism."
ReplyDeleteTrue.
What liberals give to women with one hand they take from them with the other.
lol
As far the loss of police. If places like NJ would allow people to properly arm themselves you'd need less police anyway. That would be good for men as most men want a less intrusive government.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't be good for the men who are police officers and now get to be unemployed. But of course even simple nuances like that don't mesh with your conception that "men" is this one big monolithic group. The actual day-to-day interests and desires of all the 300 million people in the US, and the 6 billion people in the world, and the way they intersect and contradict and require compromise is lost on a bunch of people who genuinely can't see any conflict except in terms of some kind of fantasy gender war.
If people really preferred lugging around their own firearms for protection (and no mistake, guns aren't cheap. You have to practice frequently if you expect to be any good at all in a fight and bullets cost money) rather than leaving their protection in the hands of well-trained and trusted professionals, we'd have kept the wild west wild. If you cut the police force you're not going to save enough in taxes to pay for all your bullets plus you'll have a lot of innocent bystanders getting shot by our new class of unregulated gun-toting heroes.
ReplyDeletePlus, there are situations where being able to shoot first won't help you, and in those cases it's nice to have a single number you can call to get all the help you need.
@ Captain Bathrobe
ReplyDeleteCaptain Bathrobe said: "As the father of two young children, I would be very, very sorry if programs like Paid Family Leave (in CA) were to get cut. In my experience, programs that are perceived as primarily benefiting women really do benefit everyone.
I'm sure our MRA friends would agree if they took a minute to consider the matter.
(Doesn't hold breath.)"
Doesn't help the business owner.
Random Brother
By that logic, there should never be any sort of labor laws at all, as they may "hurt" the business owner. PFL is paid for out of payroll taxes (which are normally deducted for State Disability Insurance) in any event. Business owner's costs, while not negligible, are really fairly modest. I own my own business, FWIW, and I qualified for PFL for both of my kids--so, yes, business owners can directly benefit from such programs.
Business owners also receive the benefit of living in a society in which kids are that much better cared for, thus reducing later social costs such as crime, mental and physical health problems, and educating kids who have been neglected--all of which are far more expensive than paying parents to have a little bonding time with their kids.
Money invested in kids pays off big time later on, even if it has the (unfortunate, in your view apparently) side-effect of benefiting women.
@ triplanetary
ReplyDeletetriplanetary said: "Wouldn't be good for the men who are police officers and now get to be unemployed. But of course even simple nuances like that don't mesh with your conception that "men" is this one big monolithic group."
No. I'm fully aware that men aren't a monolithich group. However, the overall good to men would outweigh some loss of jobs, IMO. Yes, some men would lose jobs, but far more would be free of government overreach and self reliant people are never a bad thing.
Triplanetary said: "The actual day-to-day interests and desires of all the 300 million people in the US, and the 6 billion people in the world,"
We should not be responsible for 6 billion people. The United States should focus on the United States, not the whole world.
triplanetary continued: "and the way they intersect and contradict and require compromise is lost on a bunch of people who genuinely can't see any conflict except in terms of some kind of fantasy gender war."
The fact that you don't seem to see the harm done to men by feminist laws suggest to me that your take on these issues will always and only benefit women.
Random Brother
@ K
ReplyDelete1. Many people like to have their own firearms, like to shoot, and want to be able to defend themselves from danger rather than having to rely on police who have no constitutional duty to protect you.
2. Many people do not trust the police and a number of police officers are not well trained.
3. I don't believe that the US will turn into the wild west without gun control. Very simply in states with gun control the most violent people still get guns.
4. While there are situations where you can't/shouldn't shoot first, there are situations where being armed will save you life.
Random Brother
Sorry should read
ReplyDelete@ kysokisaen (rest of message)
@ Captain Bathrobe
ReplyDeleteIf you believe in Paid Family Leave, feel free to pay into it till your heart content. I have no problem with that. The problem is people such as yourself deciding that others should pay for it.
Random Brother
The problem is people such as yourself deciding that others should pay for it.
ReplyDeleteNo, that's not the problem. That problem was solved by setting up a representative government, wherein elected officials make these sorts of decisions on behalf of their constituents.
Disagree with their decisions? Work to elect different representatives.
The real problem is people like you, who can't seem to understand these basic concepts.
@ Sally Strange
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm at it, why don't I go and tilt at windmills also?
And how has that representative government that you're so proud of worked out, Sally?
Are we as a country financially solvent?
Are out children the healthiest and smartest in the world?
Well at least we are kicking ass overseas and our enemies fear us, right?
The government is broken Sally. It only works for certain people and being a non rich male that means I'm not one of them.
I would think that someone like you, seeing that we are trillions of dollars in debt, would understand that, but I guess as a feminist you just cant 'seem to understand these basic concepts.'
Further just because our elected officials decide something doesn't make it right! The constitution (what's left of it) is supposed to protect us from government overreach, not allow that overreach so someone like you can say, don't like it, vote us out.
I should not be taxed to death because some couple can't figure out how to wear a condom, nor should I lose money as a business owner so that someone else can watch their one night stand be born.
Random Brother
Random Brother
If you cut the police force you're not going to save enough in taxes to pay for all your bullets plus you'll have a lot of innocent bystanders getting shot by our new class of unregulated gun-toting heroes
ReplyDeleteTaking this even further, let me quote Fred Clark:
I don't know which half of that assumption is crazier -- the idea that equivalent jobs would exist with equivalent wages in life Beyond Thunderdome, or the idea that $15 here would have exactly the same purchasing power as 15 units of whatever barter-currency the regional warlords would be accepting in the Hobbesian jungle of the Tax Foundation's idea of utopia.
http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2009/04/postapocalyptic-anarchy-day.html
"Ozymandias said...
ReplyDeleteThe MGTOW are betas, who apparently hold up society. It is the contention of the MGTOWs that for their invaluable contributions as IT guys and corporate drones, they should be rewarded with pussy, and if they aren't they shall take their balls and go home and see how well you can run a civilization with nothing but aloof alpha assholes and rich guys."
You can't run a civilization as such. Not to mention there is a clear point of going Galt to a culture that adamantly refuses to even remotely respect men for what they do and who they are. This site is just a tiny symptom of the malaise. Interesting how much banter is going on here, and yet just about everyone refuses to grasp this concept.
I could wax on and on, but instead I'll keep it simplified; you pour on misandry by the truckloads with men---the very men that are holding up society---and expect nothing to happen, I honestly wonder what noxious substance you are smoking in order to ponder that conclusion.
I'll also state this---while I don't like the idea of Western civilization collapsing under its own weight, good fucking luck on calling upon those very men you continue to dump on with your toxicity when you need them.
All five of you wytch?
ReplyDeleteRichard-democracy is not an easy thing to deal with.
ReplyDeleteIt takes a lot of effort and just whining does nothing. Take action and here is the key-KEEP WORKING ON IT.
There are days when I look at what is going on here in AZ and cry. And then I get back up and keep working on it. Because this is MY country and it deserves the best I can give to it even if it has jackasses like you in it.
Day 45 of the intrepid MRAs’ disappearance from society, and civilisation as we know it has begun to crumble into dust.
ReplyDelete‘Oh no!’
‘What’s the matter, Mary?’
‘My computer’s making that annoying beeping sound when I open Powerpoint again. Where’s that weird smelly little man who usually fixes it?’
‘I don’t know. I haven’t seen him for a while, now I come to think of it.’
‘OMIGODWHATAREWEGONNADO?’
‘Wait a minute - why not just call the other chap in IT? The good-looking Mexican one they hired last month?’
‘Oh yeah. Good idea. He’s well fit – and he’s way less creepy too.’
‘I heard they were going to fire that other one for sexual harrassment anyway, so good riddance. Buck-toothed little freak.’
‘What was his name again?’
‘Gaunt? Grant? Something like that. Damned if I can remember.’
‘Whatev. Have you got Lorenzo’s extension number?’
(Meanwhile on a deserted island far, far away, the MRAs’ morale and food supplies are running low, and various attempts to mate with the local wildlife have met with humiliating failure. One of their number has started writing a blog about what a bunch of entitled hypergamous bitches today’s Outer Mongolian hippos are.)
^^Above post, ROFL!! Serious ROFL!!:DDD
ReplyDelete