It's the end of the world as we know it, but dudes feel fine

Serves you right for being a lady, lady!

In a discussion of Britain's financial troubles on the Happy Bachelors Forum, a dude calling himself rebel managed to tease out some good news in the prospect of complete financial meltdown: the collapse of civilization might just serve to put the wimminz in their place!

Let's face it: feminism was possible only through oppulence [sic]. The richer the country the worse it got.

Now the opposite is happening: we may have to suffer not being able to buy that new pair of shoes, but women will become less arrogant when they will have to live on bread crumbs.

I say keep them starved, skinny and obedient. Civilization is harmful to men: it causes women to go haywire.

If the economy tanks, men will be the winners.

"Oppulence?" Apparently, in the brave new post-civilization world, correct spelling will be a luxury we can no longer afford.

EDIT: Screencap for those not registered at Happy B:

All the single mothers

It's the one in the middle that's the problem.

Fellas, be careful out there, lest you run across the single gravest threat to modern man, and probably civilization itself: the single mom. These money-hungry, baby-hungry monsters will seduce you and abandon you, after extracting from you the magical substance that allows them to pop forth babies that you will have to pay for forever. Young or old, straight or lesbian, they all want your sperm and your money.

At least that's the argument of a dude calling himself The Fourth Planet on the LoveShack.org message boards. I've put some especially good bits in bold.

[T]he time has come to look at male sexuality as a weakness that makes men vulnerable to all kinds of predator. It's a sexual vulnerability that makes you prey to baby mama or baby-hungry women. ...

Your sexuality is tolerated only when it's necessary to provide young women, long past menopausal women, lesbians, single mothers by choice ... with children. In other words, only for as long as it serves women's needs to satisfy their baby urges. ...

Women's sexuality gives them, and the state, almost unlimited power to control men. As long as women are free to use their power of sex to exploit men, then all the things we resent in women will continue and get worse.

Our weakness for pussy is ... being used to destroy us. ...

You must reject single mothers because she represents all of the things that destroy men, our children, our families, and our communities. ...

Today, women only engage in sex for as long as it takes to establish a claim on a man's resources. In other words, through marrying and divorcing him or having a man's child out of wedlock. They want the benefits that that provides in marriage, but not the commitment to one man. That's because they want to be free to use their sexuality for themselves and be free to exploit other men for their resources.

Damn those sneaky, sexy ladies and their sneaky, sexy sexiness! If only there was a way to get rid of all desire altogether.

Love-shyness and the perpetual resentment machine

She's so smug, that Mona Lisa!

Reading Love-shy.com, a forum for self-described incels (that is, the "involuntarily celibate") and other "love-shy" guys, is a depressing experience. On the one hand, there are a lot of guys there who are genuinely hurting due to social awkwardness, depression, and other serious maladies that would be better treated by a psychiatrist and/or a good therapist than by talking to other equally miserable guys on an online forum.

And on the other hand, there is so much seething resentment among the regulars, not only of those women who have rejected them but women in general. The complaint is always the same: women only like "bad boys" and thugs, and refuse to date "nice guys." That is, guys like those who post on Love-Shy.com.

In one recent, fairly typical, thread, an unhappy "nice guy" reports that a girl he had a crush on (and who, a year ago, had turned him down) is now pregnant:

And she lists herself as single [on Facebook], which means that she was knocked up by some loser. That could have been MY kid; instead, I'm left here wondering why she followed the stereotype, when I thought she was so different.

I swear, all women are the same. They ALL follow the same patterns. Even someone who considers themselves an outcast or eccentric themselves, they ALL follow the same patterns. Her boyfriends were always extremely good looking, too.

This is another example of a woman who is nerdy/geeky, and doesn't like the nice guys. Pathetic, really pathetic.

So her crime is that ... she is attracted to guys that she thinks are, er, attractive? Instead of a self-described "nice guy" who seems to think she has a duty to be attracted to him, and who is obsessive enough to still be nursing a grudge about her rejection of him a year earlier?

Others pipe up with their support:

This should be of no surprise to you. She clearly is a quasi-eugenicist that deemed your genes unworthy of propagation. She subsequently mated with another guy who had desirable genes so that she could have the best possible offspring. Classic eugenics, classic female hypergamy.

Yep. Women who are attracted to the attractive are "eugenicists," essentially little Hitlers at heart. "Classic female hypergamy," by the way, is basically a fancy way of suggesting that all women are essentially gold-diggers and/or alpha-dog seekers, going for men who are older and richer than they are or otherwise at the top of the heap. Get used to the term: MRAs, MGTOWs, and Incels use it constantly. (I should probably add it to my post on the lingo of the "manosphere.")

Another commenter picks up on the "women are eugenicists" theme:

If a woman is ever talking to you and the words "nice" or "sweet" comes out of her mouth, you then know that she would rather see you hanging dead from a rope before dating/sleeping with you. She wouldn't give you 2 dollars to save your life.

Women are not just turned off by nice, sweet guys. Women hate and despise them. They want them dead, they cannot stand undesirable genes.

A third puts it equally bluntly:

If you're ugly, women want you to die of a horribly painful death, and she would LOVE to torture you so that you suffer as much as possible.

Still another pipes up with a story of being similarly "victimized" by his "oneitis" -- that is, the girl he's completely obsessed with:

She always says I'm a lovely sweet guy. We also have loads in common, in terms of values, interests, etc. Now I know these are all the kiss of death. Girls don't really want these things (sweetness, kindness, loveliness). They want to spread the alpha male genes. ... I am the victim of classic female hypergamy too. She's with a doctor!

Meanwhile, another suggests that the OP is probably better off on his own, given that most women are lying, cheating whores:

you are used for attention whoring when the bad boy did all the fucking. Just get over asap man, can you imagine what would happen if she were your wife? More than likely she will cheat. Todays sad reality is if you are a shy, introverted guy you will always feel the threat of cheating even with your wife every fucking day of your life.

The only healthy thing in the whole thread? The OP reports that he's deleted the pregnant ex-crush from his Facebook friends list.

You know what? Life is unfair. Love is tough. Some people are better looking than other people. How many guys want to be Don Draper, minus, perhaps, the constant boozing and fairly regular assholism? Probably every man who watches Mad Men, and then some. How many look like Don Draper? A tiny fraction of a percent of the former group. There's a hilarious eposide of Between Two Ferns, Zach Galifianakis' fake chat show, in which Zach confronts Jon Hamm, the actor who plays Don Draper, with the fact of his astounding handsomeness:

Zach: "Does it make you sick when you look in the mirror to see how handsome you are and to know that people are disfigured? And don't you think you should think that?"

Jon: "I ... I've really never thought of it that way."

Zach: "You never thought, hey, uh, why is Jesus so cruel?"

Jon: "Well, I've thought that."

If it's any consolation, she can't really act.

So, yeah, some people have advantages in the world of love and sex. Attractive, outgoing, happy people generally fare better than unattractive, shy and unhappy people. (And it's not like the guys on Love-shy.com are all unattractive -- or that they have any great sympathy for women who aren't hotties.)  But even the beautiful people get their hearts broken sometimes. No one can simply have whoever they want. No one is entitled to have another person fall in love with them, or even just into bed. That is up to the other person. (See Hugo Schwytzer's recent post "the right to pursue, not the right to have," for more on this.) 

Yes, there's a difference between being rejected once in a while and being rejected all the time, or being simply so terrified by rejection you never even try to approach anyone. If you're depressed, desperate, awkward and needy, as many of the "love-shy" seem to be, you're going to repel most if not all of those you're attracted to. This fucking sucks. But it's life. The solution? Get some help, and get your shit together. Get your depression treated. (I've been on antidepressants for years; it's changed my fucking life.) Get your social anxiety treated. Talk to therapists abut your issues. Get lots of exercise. See a sex surrogate if necessary. I'm not saying any of these things to be insulting. I'm saying them because they will actually help.

Some things you shouldn't do? Embrace your (hopefully temporary) datelessness as a fucking IDENTITY. Spend all your time on a message board with others who've done the same thing. Cultivate your resentment of women for rejecting you, and receive validation from other guys for doing this. (Guess what? Just as most women can sniff out your desperation, they can also sniff out your resentment, and it's not an attractive quality.)

Or, finally, to assume that things are oh-so-easy for women seeking love and sex. If you're not aware of the problems women face in the world of dating, you're just not paying attention. Are there women who are always (whether they like it or not) followed by a small herd of lovesick men? Yes. Are there women who are 30-year-old virgins? Yes to that as well. Love is tough, but demonizing the opposite sex isn't good for anyone: you're creating a perpetual resentment machine.

And it won't get you laid.

Air conditioning for women: A terrible injustice

Fuck those bitches. They didn't invent air conditioning!

How to win friends and garner dozens of upvotes in the Men's Rights subreddit on Reddit: Bash out a barely coherent stream-of-consciousness rant suggesting that women are ungrateful bitches because they don't mine coal, and didn't invent air conditioning or hunt mammoths. Of course, no one posting in the Men's Rights subreddit has done any of those things either, but apparently everyone with a penis gets automatic credit for them.

Here's the post, from some dude called TheGrendler:

We men built a nice safe world for you all the the coal-mines of death, roads, railroads, bridges and tall office buildings. Its $1,000,000 spent per death of a man on a large dangerous project on average now you can just 9-5 it and call it a day in air-conditioned and heated safety. Forget about the wars we died in and the sacrifices made just ignore history or is it now hersorty? You are accruing the benefits without ever having to pay the price you still don't have to sign up for the draft and who will protect you? The Sex and the City girls will fight off the North Koreans with their Manolo Blahniks?

Men gave you this modern world now you take it for granted we hunted the mammoth to feed you we died in burning buildings and were gassed in the trenches but that was just for fun right?

How quick and conveniently you forget who made this possible.

We gave you Leonardo da Vinci, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy not to mention countless others, Jonas Salk saved half the world from death and you just piss on it all.

Shame on you,

You hedonistic, narcissistic, sociopath metastasizing cancer.

Whatever happened to live together die alone?

Damn you ungrateful sluts for enjoying air conditioning, despite the fact that it was invented by a dude! (Probably. I didn't check.) Only dudes should enjoy things invented by other dudes! Jonas Salk was a dude! Only dudes should get the polio vaccine! How do you like your polio, you fancy-shoe wearing bitches!!!?? You should have thought of that before you went and didn't invent the motherfucking polio vaccine!!!

And you can just forget about reading any motherfucking Dostoevsky! Only dudes can read Dostoevsky! You filthy whores stick to Jane Austen!

Sorry, I got carried away.

Johnny's Turn to Cry

Boo fucking hoo.

As many of you have no doubt noticed -- what with the literally dozens of news stories and op-ed pieces on the subject that have appeared in the media in the last week or so -- incoming Speaker of the House John Boenher is a bit of a weeper. While some have scoffed at his public crying jags, quite a few people, including some who don't like his politics at all, have stepped forward to defend his right to cry.

Women have been especially quick to jump to his defense, at least when it comes to the crying thing. In the Washington Post, Ruth Marcus announced that she wanted "to celebrate the lachrymose speaker-to-be and hope that he helps make the world safe for public crying." Rachel Maddow devoted a whole segment of her show to a defense of his shows of emotion -- while pointing out that while Boehner has been moved to tears by the plight of American schoolchildren, his policies will inevitably result in massive budget cuts for education.

But the most, er, original interpretation of the whole crying thing comes from one commenter on NiceGuy's MGTOW [Men Going Their Own Way] forum, who sees this female defense of Boehner's  right to cry  as ... an evil female plot to make him look bad. As Phloridian put it in a recent posting:

By now many of us have become aware of the crying episodes of John Boehner who is soon to become the next Speaker of the House.

Women all over the media have been insisting that it is alright, but snickering about it covertly. The piece on 60 Minutes has virtually doomed any chance of becoming President and he is beginning to become a laughing stock.

This is why women are not to be trusted. They will encourage men to cry, and expose their vulnerabilities all in an effort to weaken the man. That's what's being done here and it sickens me.

Women are devious creatures indeed! It makes me want to cry.

Women: Completely useless, or only partly?

Women: They can't even walk properly

Have you ever sat down to write up a little list of pros and cons, only to find that you can't think of any pros at all? That was the dilemma faced by a number of regulars on the grotesquely misnamed NiceGuy MGTOW [Men Going Their Own Way] forums when the subject of "what women offer" to men came up the other day. Nightstorm introduced the topic thusly:

It just seems women cannot offer a man anything these days. The days of "well.. I have a pussy", just doesn't seem to cut it anymore.

Don't I know it! I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with the ladies that go just like this:

INTERIOR, FANCY RESTAURANT, EVENING

DAVID sits eating a delicious steak while his date, a SEXY LADY, picks nervously at her tiny salad.

DAVID: 

So why am I paying attention to you?

SEXY LADY

(brightly)

Well, I have a pussy.

DAVID: 

A pussy, you say?

SEXY LADY

Yeah. Right down here, in my pants.

DAVID: 

That might work with some guys, but that it ain't gonna work with me! Pussy just doesn't cut it any more! 

SEXY LADY:

But, pussy?

DAVID

(Holding up hand)

Meet Pamela Hand-erson -- the only pussy I'll ever need!

SEXY LADY quietly weeps.

DAVID
Oh, by the way, you're paying for dinner.

And ... scene!

Nightstorm, a fair and open-minded fellow, did concede that women had some good points, a few of them anyway, and set out to write up a list of pros and cons. First, the pros. Read this carefully, ladies. These are the only good things you bring to the table:

Pros:

Pussy
Emotional support (if its a decent chick) which can ranged from listening to you, to snuggling, ect.
Sammichs
Something cute to look at while they are young
A cure for lonliness

Yes, "lonliness." Spell-checking is for bitches and hoes.

Predictably, Nightstorm's "Cons" list was a lot longer. Some selected highlights:

Bankrupcy. A chick will cause your wealth to go DOWN. One of my cousins knew a guy who would literally be a millionare if his wife didn't spend.
Bitching. Yes, they nag and vex your soul to death when they do not get their little ways.
Manipulation and Control. What? You don't want to do the dishs for me? No sex tonight!!!
...
Loud. Women have high pitched voices, who's bright idea was it to use it all the time making screetching noises?
Trashy. Once they get what they want (marriage), then they stop working on themselves. Now they let themselves go.
Divorce. See Bankrupcy. Once you wake up to these ho's, they have alittle secret.. their taking HALF of what you own.
Cheaters. They will go sleep with other men if things don't work out with you, you don't mind.. right?
Entitlement. They deserve it all because they have been born with a pussy hole.
Dangerous. You can't be you around women. One false word and it could be jail time for you till the manginas say its enough.

Naturally, others piped up with their own observations. Not many "pros." Lots of "cons." Some found it hard to think of a single good thing to say about women. IHateRegistering summed up his feelings with an enigmatic one-liner, declaring women: "Reused and retreaded wares at government-mandated retail prices." (Uh, what?) Cherishthehate, living up to his name, concluded that women were more or less entirely useless:

I have let this question ruminate for the last couple of hours while doing other stuff. Basically I came up with nothing.

Pussy? Meh. ...  I once thought of trying gay just to get a decent blowjob. (jk of course :) ) ...

Companionship? Again, I have known very few women who you could have a decent conversation with that didn't focus on clothes, TV or their friends' love lives. ...

Women basically contribute nothing to a relationship, the onus is always on the man to keep them happy. If you ever ask a woman what she brings to the table in a relationship you will be mostly met with blank stares. It is a total non sequitur for them.

True, a couple of commenters did stand up to defend the virtues of women. Well, sort of. Seems like the ladies can be worth keeping around, so long as you keep them in check. As fschmidt put it:

I would like to remind the gentlemen here that most of the cons listed are the result of mistakes made by men, mistakes like giving women the vote. When properly managed, women are an asset.

Ah, giving women the right to vote. I always knew that was a terrible idea.

That and modern sanitation.

G.I. Jane, You Ignorant Slut

Typical female soldier, apparently.

So the fine fellows on The Spearhead have taken up the issue of women in the military.
DevilDog, a Marine, started off the discussion with a clear statement of his central thesis, that most women in the military are "USELESS ... god damn whores." Here are some of the highlights, by which I mean lowlights. (In this and following comments I've bolded the bits that grabbed my attention.) 

[T]he majority of the women in the military… ARE USELESS! … women cannot pass the PT standards for the average male, okay, so they lower em for women, many women cannot even pass the lowered standards, they don’t get kicked out though ...

These god damn whores walk around with an over-inflated ego because of this and think they’re GI Janes who can kick anyones ass… A lot of these girls are ugly as SH!T, but are given a lot of attention because we’re all horny and wanna fuck. We call ‘em desert queens, a 4/10 Female gets attention and thinks shes a 9/10..

You guys wouldn’t believe some of the stories I have: women getting gangbanged by 10 Marines, same woman who has a Husband and children. Women blowing officers for privileges, while her family is at home.. Believe me, IT’S RAMPANT. ...

Oh and SO MANY F***ING WOMEN CHEAT on their husbands while they’re deployed fighting in Afghan. Unfaithful whores.

We MEN have fought for thousands of years, and continue to fight and protect, then some fucking slut comes along and does 1/100th of the job we do, and is praised by the white knights, media, and general american population as a f***ing GI Jane empowered goddess and shit.

Taking up the contrary position was ... well, nobody. One brave soul stood up to say that, while he basically agreed with DevilDog's post, he noted that on a trip he made to an air force base that "I expected the women to look like blocks, but I was quickly disabused of the expectation. The women were overwhelmingly good looking." This small divergence from the majority view earned his comment 61 downvotes.

A few others weighed in with thoughts on women in the corporate world. According to Keyster,

There always seems to be a few decent women who “get it”, but typically most of them get very little done and stir up trouble when they try to work. Their blatant incompetence is always excused because they’re women. If you complain about them, you’ll be the one who’s punished. You have to tolerate them, cover for them and pretend they’re good at what they do.

39 upvotes for this bit of wisdom. Joe added:
  

I’m not in the military but I do work with a lot of women. ... [T]hey clearly do not have comparable problem solving ability or inclination. When it comes to figuring out how to go about something they’re terrible. Their strategy is always to bring more people in, have more conference calls, spend more time talking.

50 upvotes for this one. So women are useless in the military or in the civilian workplace. What about in the home? Nothingbutthetruth, thinking outside the box, suggested that if men were physically capable of giving birth "I am sure they would [do] a better job [as wives and mothers] than women as with everything."

So, in summary: women bad, men good, even at giving birth (if they could).

Oh, by the way, my title for this post is a Saturday Night Live reference. A really old SNL reference. Fuck, I'm old.

Also, if you decide to read the whole depressing Spearhead discussion, you will notice someone posting there as "David F." That person is not me.

How to blame feminism for everything: Extreme Homemaker Edition

Evil feminists oppressing a fake waterfall

Follow this simple four-step plan!

1) Find a story in The Daily Mail, that bastion of journalistic excellence, about a dumb, irritating woman saying or doing something dumb and/or irritating.

Oh, here's one, with the promising title "Why I'd rather my daughter marry a rich man than have a brilliant career."

Representative dumb and irritating quote:

Younger women have realised that instead of spending the day listening to some bore drone on about sales figures, it might be more fun to go swimming with the children while the cleaner sorts out the house.

2) Decide that this dumb, irritating woman is somehow a "feminist," even though she actually mocks feminists at one point and, oh yeah, her whole life plan for her daughter is pretty much the exact polar opposite of feminism.

3) Post the article to Men's Rights on Reddit under the title "Marry a rich man: The new wave of feminism."

4) Collect upvotes.

Justifying Marc Lepine's Murderous Rampage

One of Lepine's victims.

The 21st anniversary of the Montreal Massacre this Monday naturally inspired some discussion anongst Men's Rightsers and Men Going Their Own Way. And so it was only a matter of time until someone posted something essentially justifying Marc Lepine's murderous rampage. On NiceGuy's MGTOW Forums, Kargan3033's only real objection to Lepines' actions was that he picked the wrong targets -- women who weren't actually feminists. Here are the key parts of what is his own Lepine-style manifesto. It's badly written, and full of typos, but it's worth slogging through simply because it is so utterly vile. I've bolded the creepiest parts.

Was ML right in doing what he did?, in my opinion yes and no, yes that he had the right idea and no that he picked the wrong targets.

If I was ever to pull an ML, I would go to the femanazis and their goverment pimp daddies and start handing out some FMJ [Full Metal Jacket] love notes to them, not some innocet person in the streets that I would run into, why you might ask, that simple to make it clear to the femanazis and their goverment whore misters that "You keep pushing and abusing men you will pay for it with your live's blood personaly" and by taking out the femanazis and the evil scum sucking traitors who sold out their fellow men for a wiff of pussy and more power you would be sending a clear message to the public that one you are not some crazed gun man who walked into the local walmart and capped off a bunch of random strangers and second of all that the reason why you went postal was because of the shit and abuse that you suffered because you are a man thanks to the femanazis and their goverment pimp daddies and you settled the issue with them Personaly which would give you more respect in the eyes of men and most of socity at large because you delt with the ones who pushed you to far instead of gunning down innocent men, ladies and child who happened to be in the worng place at the worng time.

Also by taking out the femanazis and their goverment puppet masters you will inspire other men who are to the snaping point to got after their True Abusers and not innocent people.

All in all we are going to see more and more MLs as the femanazis and their goverment pimp daddies keep puting the screws to men which in turn will cause them to tighten the screws to the men and boys which will inspire more revenge and the spilling of their blood untill western socitey tears it'self apart. 

Kargan3033 was so proud of this comment he posted it to AntiMisandry.com. He was quick to add that it was "not a call to violance" [sic]. Really?  Then what on earth is it?

People like this aren't just wrong. They're dangerous.

He's quite the Caulksman

Hello, lover! (When they say "All-Purpose," they MEAN IT!)

The Happy Bachelors of the Happy Bachelors Forum may not be so happy, but you can't say they're not ingenious -- and thrifty! In a recent discussion of masturbation, onezero4u asked

anybody tried the "fleshlight" before????

i made a homemade one out of half a empty caulk tube, about 10" of bicycle inner tube to line the inside & some duct tape to secure it on the outside. dammmmm i didnt leave the house for a month after that.

That's right. He turned a caulk tube into a ... cock tube.

I also like how he specifies he used ten inches of inner tube. Because this guy having sex with a caulk tube wants you to know he's hung like Ron Jeremy!

Great. Now I've got to get THAT image out of my head.

Some MRA/MGTOWs sure are obsessed with fleshlights.

Not-So-Beautiful Losers

Guys, they're hiring!

I'm beginning to suspect that the Happy Bachelors who populate the Happy Bachelors Forum are not quite as happy as they let on. Why is this? Well, when anyone suggests that their single status might in any way be undesirable, they don't brush the comment off like most of us reasonably well-adjusted unmarried guys do. No, they get mad. Really mad. And they start talking about "femhags," "fem-nags," bitches and hoes (not the garden implement).

Here's the thread in question. "analyzing" starts off the festivities by pointing to an email from a lovelorn 42-year old lass to an online relationship advice column:

Maybe I shouldn't have waited [to get married], because it seems like every unmarried guy in the age range I'm looking for (40 to about 50) is a loser of one sort or another. If the guy has never been married, he's either got commitment issues, or he's lacking in social skills, or he drinks too much or has some other unattractive qualities. If he's divorced, he's either angry at women or so desperate to find a new one that he wants to hook up before he even knows you.

This comment is like a red flag to the Happy Bachelor bulls, who release a torrent of abuse that inadvertently reinforces every negative stereotype in the woman's email. After a few comments lauding the superiority of young Thai and Filipina women over fortysomething American gals, spocksdisciple gets the woman-hating orgy underway. (I've bolded some of the best -- as in worst -- bits in his comment and some of the others.)

Women like this lack an essential quality to even begin to comprehend why they are such total failures in their relationships.

That essential quality is that of introspection and reflection, instead of asking what bad choices she's made and her role in making these choices, she goes on the typical female tirade about how it's the fault of all the men around her. ...

I see lots and lots of cats in her future and nothing else, I will enjoy the upcoming decades as more and more of these useless bitches end up alone and going stir crazy. I'm betting that many of them will end up abusing drugs or alcohol to make their pain bearable. I will laugh at them because even then they will not look inwards to see if they were in part responsible for ending up alone.

Marcus Aurelius commends what he sees as an excellent analysis, and adds his own thoughts:

[W]omen are not capable of introspection, its always someone else's fault. They don't realize that their being cum dumpsters, going for Alphas, and their hypergamy destroys their chance at landing a mangina. They don't have a beta male mangina...because...they overlooked them...and still are. I think you are right, these aging women that are alone will be screwed up mentally. ...

Women just don't know what to do with themselves. ... Coming home to a quiet and empty home for them...is like descending into hell because they don't know what to do once they get there. Men get hobbies. For them Its get drunk, or watch So You Think You Can Dance or the Bachelor...hahaha.....nothing goes on inside those heads of theirs.

I'm assuming he's not the real Marcus Aurelius -- I'm pretty sure the original Marcus Aurelius never used the term "cum dumpster."

Others contribute their own insights about women. In the process, Curiepoint explains why he never became a firefighter:

I find it an honor to be so offensive to the likes of women. After a lifetime of looking after everyone else, bowing and scraping for a meagre paycheck, and kissing the ass of a woman who voraciously consumed everything I had (two of them, actually) I am more than proud to stand in defiance of any woman's shitty personality.

I wouldn't piss on a woman if she were on fire. Chances are, that would amount to one huge, spitting grease fire, given how "hot" women are comprised mostly of blubber and cheap rayon clothing. ...

Women aren't worth the effort to work up enough spit to hurl at them. And, any man who would actually cave in to her demands deserves to burn right along side them. They are not men. Both barely qualify as being vaguely humanoid.

Lavastorm suggests that perhaps being a winner isn't what it's cracked up to be, based on the following (apparently typical) scenario:

So a "winner" is a "man" who follows society's pre-programmed path to self-destruction (gets married, becomes the wife's tool to keep up with the neighbors, works in a soul-destroying job, is destroyed by wife when she gets "bored," gets blamed for "destroying the marriage," is thrown to the gauntlet of dread judges, retarded pit bulls, and menopausing succubi who commence sucking his blood.

In case you're wondering: No, he never closes the parenthesis. He's Going His Own Way, grammatically.

False (rape) assumptions

If you want to get downvoted on the Men's Rights subreddit on Reddit, just post something about how you were actually raped in a discussion of "The Campus Rape Myth." You'll get a batch of instant downvotes, and a bunch of Men's Rightsers questioning whether or not you're telling the truth, and demanding that you answer all of their questions.

Contrast this to what happens when a guy posts something on that subreddit about being falsely accused of rape or child abduction. No scrutiny, no downvotes. It's simply assumed to be true.

This is the internet, and it's pretty hard to know who is and who isn't telling the truth. But this is a pretty clear double standard, on the part of people who claim to hate double standards.

Women Are ... Part 3: A Voice For Men edition

Britney, don't you know YOU'RE toxic?

More, uh, questionable wisdom from angry dudes on the nature of women. Today: comments from A Voice For Men. I've highlighted some of the nastiest stuff for easy reference.

Women: Deserve to be shot in the face.

Women are the natural enemies of men. No matter what anyone says and how good women claim to be, that is just the truth. This will never stop and men will continue under the tyranny of women. ... We are called rapists, abusers, bullies, and even homophobes because we don’t embrace the faggots biologically backward, queer-ass culture. ... I am so fucking tired of this shit, that I really wouldn’t mind shooting a bitch dead in the face. ... They are evil. ALL OF THEM!!! ... This is a gender war, and women, ALL WOMEN! are the enemies, there is no compromising.

(Note: This comment, even with the whole shooting-women-in-the-face bit, got more upvotes than downvotes from A Voice For Men's peanut gallery, and "redpill" was not taken to task for actually suggesting murder by the site's owner, Paul Elam. Lots of other crazy stuff in that comment thread.) 

EDITED TO ADD: Elam has now removed this comment, which he says he hadn't seen before, saying "I am vehemently against violence." Given that he has posted similarly violent fantasies several times in his own pieces, this is a little difficult to take altogether seriously. He claims those other pieces were "satire" and that the violent parts were "taken out of context." Of course, none of this changes the fact that a comment about "shooting a bitch dead in the face" got more upvotes than downvotes on his site. (Here, by contrast, is a comment that got massive downvotes on his site; you'll have to click a link there to even make the comment visible.) EDITED AGAIN TO ADD: In this post, I take apart Paul's claim that he's being satirical when he talks about violence.

Women are: Toxic, but their vaginas are useful. 

Women are toxic – stay away from them, dont be around them for too long and most importantly when pumping them with man juice wear protection so you dont get infected with child support.

Until women regress back into their maternal/house keeping roles use them for the only thing they have to offer to a straight man – their vaginas.

Women are: Malleable, gullible, stupid, bad, irrational, and ridiculous.

In my opinion women are malleable,gullible and lack vision.The statements they make are ludicrous,they are therefore stupid, driven on by one thing and one thing only-their sexual power. The day someone creates a pill that desexualizes them in our eyes, then that is it. It is over. I don’t for a single second believe that the nature of women has transformed over the ages. Go back in time and the same nonsense will be as visible then as it is now. ... women are this way by nature. The good thing is,they have demonstrated, to their everlasting detriment, just how bad, irrational, and ridiculous they really are. Time to stop pandering.

Women are: Crazy, undisciplined, irresponsible, toxic, entitled, and they'll probably get your penis infected.

[W]omen in this country my age and younger are out of their minds! They have no concept of discipline or responsibility. They can talk with the best of them but their actions paint an entirely different picture. It’s not going to an extreme to want to get away from Western women entirely. They are toxic human beings. It is dangerous physically (many of them have STD’s), economically (look at hulk hogan’s ex and her new yacht the alimoney), religiously (these girls are some of the MOST entitled I have seen), etc.. Even the best of them slip into the entitled mentality far too frequently.

Unfunny Girl

Was it all based on a lie?

You know what's always hilarious? Humorless douchebags pontificating on "why women aren't funny."

Our text today: A set of comments on the Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) proboards forum. Madashell gets the ball rolling:

In my entire life I haven't met one single women who is funny especially compared to the numerous men who are able to make myself and many other people laugh. I'm sure this is true for almost all of us.

If you can't think of a single funny women you've ever met, you either 1) have no sense of humor whatsoever, or 2) you're such a flaming misogynist your brain simply can't process humor when it comes from females or 3) you live in a hole in the ground eating bugs. Or some combination of the above. In the case of Madashell, I'm guessing it's a mixture of 1) and 3). (He just seems like a bug-eater to me.) 

Now, I'm not even going to bother to provide a little list of women in history who are fucking hilarious, because every single reasonable person on planet earth should be able to come up with a little list of their own.

Instead, let's hear what the MGTOWers have to say on the subject. Here's Whytry:

Because laughter is a sign of joy and women aren't capable of emotion. They're literally creatures of lust and animal behavior.

Hanzblinx, meanwhile, offers a little list:

1. humor is related to wit which is related to intelligence
2. humor requires seeing the world outside of the 1st person perspective
3. humor is used by men as a tool to attract women by display of wit, however, women attract men with display of skin, no wits required.

Of course, when a woman laughs at your joke, it doesn't necessarily mean that she actually has a sense of humor. At least according to dontmarry, who suggests that laughter is sort of a female version of a boner:

When a woman likes you (i.e her gina tingles madly for you) she will laugh at ALL your jokes, even the not so funny ones. ...  'I want a man with a sense of humor' really means 'I want a man who pushes the right buttons and makes my pussy moist.' Women are incapable of appreciating, or possessing a sense of humor. None of the so-called female comediennes can approach the greatness of George Carlin or the brilliance of Rowan Atkinson.

Interesting theory, but I'm a little stuck on the notion that George Carlin and Rowan Atkinson represent the highest pinnacle of achievement in human humor history.

rebel has a somewhat more elaborate, if somewhat less coherent, explanation:

Because le rire est le propre de l'homme- laugh is specific to man.

MAN is the only creature on the planet that has a capacity for humour and laughter. When you really think about it, humour is a gift from God. It sets MAN apart from all other creatures: on a higher level of existence.

To me, the question is irrelevant. Does my dog have a sense of humor? The question is irrelevant because only Men have a sense of humor. By design.

Adam was the first sentient creature (so they say... I don't know). Then Eve was produced to provide some blow jobs whenever Adam felt bored. Eve was content to be Adam's receptacle (in Latin: vagina):she didn't have to be funny: only have a deep throat. But that was before feminism took the bag away...but humor has not returned...

LOL!!!

"LOL!!!" Really?

I guess I just don't understand humor after all.

EDIT: Looks like the humor-discussers have discovered this post.

Your "fertility symbol," my body

In a discussion of my "Ladies! Stop assaulting us by dressing like slutty sluts" post, regular commenter DarkSideCat left a comment that really got to the heart of what is so troubling about the CoAlpha Brotherhood and others of their ilk. I thought everyone deserved to see it, so here it is. (I've edited it down slightly, broken it into paragraphs and put especially pertinent points in bold; you can see the original comment in context here.)

To set it up: In a previous comment Eoghan had referred casually to the "aggressive flashing of fertility and mating symbols by females." DarkSideCat replied:

You mean their fucking bodies? Have you so objectified women that you can't think of their very BODIES as anything other than 'fertility and mating symbols'? You are thinking of women's skin as some sort of sexual object for you, rather than their own flesh. ... You are assuming that women's bodies are sex objects or sex acts, they aren't, they are people's fucking bodies.

Men show their skin all of the damned time. They even routinely go topless in public places. Because a man taking off his shirt in the heat, or putting on a nice pair of jeans to try and look nice is a person doing stuff, whereas a woman going topless in [the] heat or putting on a pair of jeans to look nice is a filthy slut who deserves to be raped?

Women's bodies and skin are no more public property than men's, and, if you can't manage to see someone in public and find them attractive without thinking they are evil and are asking for you to rape them, you are the problem, not them.

Shit like this is also pretty damned insulting to men. You know, I think more highly of men than this, perhaps that is the difference between me and CoAlpha. I think that men can (and some in fact do) behave like decent human beings, and see women as human beings as well. I do not see male sexuality as so innately out of control and violent that if they see someone sexy, they will feel a burning need to violently attack and rape them.

You want to know why rad fems see all men as rapists? Because they believe the same stereotypes about men as anti-feminists like CoAlpha. If you spend so much fucking time pushing the notion that men can't help being assholes or rapists, you are going to get some people to believe it, but disagree about the solution.

 The quotes here contain direct threats of rape and murder and say that people dressed in certain types of clothes are asking to be raped. Yet, somehow you can't see how fucked up that is?

Amen.

Shopping pissed

Woman Oppressing Men

The oppression of men by mean, evil, surly women continues apace. Today: the verbal and psychological abuse heaped upon men by -- brace yourself -- female sales clerks. We turn to The Spearhead forums for evidence of this perfidy.

Kinetic opened up the discussion with a tale of a recent shopping excursion. It started out innocently enough with a trip to a tobacconist. Expecting to see men behind the counter at such a manly business, kinetic was horrified to find a pair of women instead. I'm sorry: C*nts. (That's how they spell the word on The Spearhead.)

I ask for some good tobacco, and straight away one of the women give me attitude. So I say I want something thats not perfumed, something 'male', she says "you want what??!", I say "forget it". Im not put money in this c*nts pocket.

Im so sick of women. This tobacconist is a little shop thats meant to specialize, and this bitch first points me to the over the counter stuff which is available anywhere, then gives me attitude. It f*cking annoys me.

But this was not the end of the oppression inflicted on our poor hero by these dastardly women.

I then went to buy some new clothes from a major retailer, got to the counter, another woman there, I didnt say a word. She bags the stuff up, says "thanks". I say nothing, take the clothes and walk off.

Can you imagine! She does her job, then says "thanks." What an outrage!

As far as Im concerned they can all bollocks. Im not buying anything from a small female run business, and when I have to buy from the big department stores, Im not even going to say please or thankyou. They can simply f*ck off.

I'm sure they will dearly miss your business.

Clearly moved by Kinetic's sad tale, Nurb piped up with words of support:

I know how you feel. I came to that same conclusion a few years back. When I go to the shops I act as if women don't exist. I avoid eye contact as well, I can't even stand to look at them because I know they're just going to start me off with their cowshit. A woman who run's their mouth just pisses me off to the point where I'd want to deck the fucker right there.

A woman talking in a store? Clearly deserving a punch in the head. Also: Note that Nurb has used the correct term in this context: "cowshit." Women are, as we all know, incapable of "bullshit." They can only manage the clearly inferior "cowshit."

But are all female clerks equally evil? misterb suggested his comrades adopt a somewhat more nuanced view.

Personally I can tolerate a female attitude from a white woman and even a white male to female transsexual, never from a black woman or a latino woman. ... I am not going give her my hard earn cents. ...

If it's an Asian woman or a Muslim woman I would classify her as a supremacist and a narcissistic asshat

A few commenters raised their eyebrows at this suggestion. "Why tolerate it from any female?" asked trent13.

Is there any solution to this kind of oppression? Several commenters suggested a kind of uncivil disobedience. Zebert suggested not buying anything from female sales clerks or sales representatives of any kind. 'Women are the reason our species may exterminate itself," he added later, in response to a commenter who was insufficiently outraged by the behavior of the sales clerks in question. "All human conflict exists due to women."

But it was J. Durden who suggested an even more effective kind of incivility.

I remember when I was the assistant manager of a watch sales / repair shop, I had a policy to treat attractive women terrible. It was my way of balancing out the world (for myself), since I was sure their good looks got them tons of perks - drinks, getting out of tickets, etc.

It is from small gestures of defiance like this that revolutions begin.

J. Durden, I would call you the Rosa Parks of the Men's Rights Movement, but I suspect that wouldn't go over very well, given that Rosa Parks was, you know, a woman.

EDITED TO ADD: Thanks to Miranda for passing along a link to this lovely conversation.

Also, just so everyone knows: I'm totally being sarcastic in this post. (Except right now.) Indeed, I'd like to take this opportunity to introduce everyone to the "I'm totally being sarcastic" tag (see below), which will hopefully clear up any potential confusion in the future.

How to find women disgusting: A Do-It-Yourself guide.

He was cured, all right.

Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) are endlessly fascinating. For men who want to have nothing to do with women, they sure spend an awful lot of time thinking about women, talking about women, obsessing about women.

And oftentimes, it seems, the women they obsess about the most are naked women. Which brings us to one of the central conundrums of the MGTOW "movement," or "community," or whatever it is: How does one square one's desire to have nothing to do with women with one's desire to put one's penis in them?

Not surprisingly, this is a topic that sometimes pops up, as it were, on MGTOW forums. Recently I ran across one such discussion archived on Don't Marry.  A late-twenties guy calling himself grasser asked the assembled MGTOWers how he might go about reducing his sexual desire for those sneaky, sexy, evil women:

Here’s the problem: I despise American women, but some of them look hot anyway. I pretty much stay the hell away from them as much as possible. Still, I’m a guy with normal drives and impulses, and sometimes I just gotta have it. It’s very annoying, and distracts me from other important work. I don’t like to watch porn either. Fuckin waste of time. I’ve been going to the gym everyday to lift weights, do cardio, I eat 3 square meals a day. How do you reduce desire for the female sex – besides going gay, of course.

No one suggested he look into that last option -- MRAs and MGTOWs tend to be pretty thoroughly heterosexual. But they did have a number of specific ideas. One jokingly suggested that marriage would kill his sex drive pronto; another suggested that just talking to a woman for any length of time would do it: "After half an hour of her heroic autobiography, poor wally will be as limp as overcooked pasta." Another suggested he let time take its toll, as the sex drive declines with age. And of course there was the age-old standby, furious masturbation. And if you couldn't stand celibacy any longer: hookers.

Many of the suggestions were a little more, well, original:

I was told that eating Tofu will help cut down your sex drive. Buddhist monks in Japan are known to eat Tofu to “cool” their desire.

Train in kung fu, chi kung, yoga to control emotions and libido.

And for those with less interest in Eastern ways:

If you are white make latent racism your ally. (Not a moral solution but a practical one.) When you see a hottie imagine how many black dudes she sucked off. Try to picture them frosting her face.

But the most popular suggestion had a touch of Clockwork Orange about it: Using a sort of MGTOW version of the Ludovico Technique, train yourself to think of women and their sexy sex organs as repulsive. As one put it:

Remember that they stink. The “natural feminine scent” that they have nowadays is every bit as sexy as a skunk.

Another chimed in:

These words have gotten me through it:

“It’s just a stinky hole.”

Another quoted from a strange "Pep Talk For Brilliant Sex Restrainers" on the website celibacy.info:

Realize her body is full of the various cruds that makes up the human body (this is a favorite of the Asian sages). Excrement is sitting in her, all sorts of fatty deposits, weird impurities and drugs, gristle and bone, etc. She has bacteria in her mouth, and when she wakes up it stinks. Even if she seems pretty, there is even more putrid bacteria in her lower orifices. She farts and defecates just like any animal. Try to visualize her skeleton beneath the skin, muscle, fat and fascia. See, she’s not really a turn-on after all.

Well, I don't know about you, but I'm off to wash my brain with mind-bleach.

What Women Think of Men, Apparently

She's thinking unkind things about your penis.

Yesterday we met Christopher in Oregon, a fellow who feels that other fellows might want to avoid all contact with women, who are all, as he put it, "whores ... walking cesspools of filth ... DIRTY creatures, pure and simple."

Christopher was such an articulate spokesman for his cause that I thought I'd bring him back for an encore. Today, we learn that the hatred doesn't only flow one way. In fact, he suggests in another epic comment on Marky Mark's blog, women think as poorly of men as he thinks of women. Not just some of them, but every single one of them:

ALL women hate ALL men ALL of the time! (most of them can keep it hidden for some time.)

This is a CARDINAL RULE! If you can't accept it, you've already lost the game. You're rat-fucked! You might as well just give up and go hang yourself by getting married!

In case we forgot that women aren't too be trusted, he gives us a little refresher course in the Evil That is Woman:

You can't deal with women safely because we aren't playing by the same rules. One must keep in mind that the three primary characteristics of All women are as follows:

1) Immoral (or amoral, if you prefer)

2) Dishonest

3) Selfish

Many other adjectives would apply, but these three are the main attributes of women. Since this is true, and the laws are on their side, a man can't hope to break even in any dealings with women. It's impossible.

Now we come to the crux of his argument. More sensitive men may wish to sit down at this point, and perhaps move to protect their testicles. For what Christopher has somehow figured out about what goes on inside the dirty, filthy, selfish, dishonest, immoral, whorish minds of women while they're having sex with you will shock you to your core.

Every time you are humping and grinding and snorting like a rutting pig on top of a woman thinking you are SUCH a stud (in all fairness, you probably are NOT) she is:

1) Bored

2) Faking it

3) Disgusted

4) Glad she took her valium first

5) Fantasizing about a black man

6) Fantasizing about a new car

7) Fantasizing about the butch lesbian that drilled her last week with a ten-inch strap-on for six hours

8) Laughing inside about your pitifully small penis

9) Comparing you unfavorably to any one of her previous two-hundred partners

10) Wishing you would go even faster and trigger ... a massive coronary

11) Fantasizing about the neighbor's German Shepherd

12) Thinking about how your deodorant just ain't making it

Sorry to burst your bubble. I've heard this from women. It's all a sick joke. You are NOT Don Juan, and they don't view you as such. In her mind, you are a disgusting, smelly pig, and you are invading her body with that.....thing.

Well, if that's what he thinks women think of men, no wonder he wants to have nothing to do with them.

It's kind of sad, really.

On a not-entirely-unrelated note, if you scroll up to the top of the page on Marky Mark's blog on which this comment from Christopher is posted, you will note that Mr. Mark has worked himself into a lather over a story in The Onion. I can't quite tell if he thinks it's real -- I mean, how could he? -- but he acts as though he does. He even writes up a point-by-point rebuttal and everything. It's so cute! As he puts it, unaware of the irony, "I can't make this stuff up. ... I can't! No matter how hard I tried, I could not make this up." Well, no. That's why the folks at The Onion make it up for you.

Shakespeare before hoes

A female friend of mine asked me the other day how Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) handle the question of sex -- as in, how can these guys deal with their desire to have sex with women if they swear off women? It's a good question, and one I still don't have a comprehensive answer to. Some pine for sexbots, some masturbate, some seek salvation in supposedly more pliable non-Western women.

And then there's Christopher in Oregon. He's got his own plan, which involves motorcycles, Beethoven, and Robert Frost. Here's how he spelled it out in a mini-manifesto he posted as a comment on Marky Mark's blog.

First, Christopher defines the problem, as he sees it:

Women are whores. They are far more likely to have STD's than men. Be aware of this. Handle with extreme care. Women are filthy, and they will lie about their infections. Condoms will NOT protect you.

So what can a poor boy do?

The simplest and wisest choice is to be as I am- a gender separatist. I have no social dealings with women (with the exception of my two lesbo neighbors).

LEAVE THEM ALONE, fellows!  

But some of them are kind of, like, all sexy and shit.

Women are walking cesspools of filth! Most of them have or will have a permanent STD infection. It is unavoidable. These are FACTS, and not the rantings of an unstable misogynist.

(I'm a very STABLE misogynist, thank you kindly)

Women are DIRTY creatures, pure and simple. Be dignified, and don't lower yourself to engaging in any filthy behavior with them. You WILL be infected with the diseases they are carrying. A moral, dignified man does NOT rut like an animal with one of these creatures. Sexual intercourse and oral sex are filthy, disgusting activities, and ruin a man morally. They spread disease. 

Ok, ok. But what if you still want to rut like an animal with filthy women? Sublimate, sublimate, sublimate. And pull out some of the books you picked up in that one English-for-non-majors class you took in college.

Elevate yourself above such filth of the flesh.

Listen to classical music. Read Shakespeare and Frost. Meditate. Take long walks. Ride a motorcycle or bicycle. Think good thoughts. Purify yourself from the evil in our society.

And avoid any unnecessary stimulation:

I very recently tossed what little pornography I had left. Amazing the effect on my mind and soul. Do not lust after women in your mind. Masturbate only as a last result to relieve tension. Do not lust after women sexually. It weakens you.

Remember, women aren't just filthy whores, they're Satan's representatives on earth:

God made man in His image, and women was made in the image of Satan. Squeal all you want, but history proves me right. A woman is a test; a stumbling block for man. Our life is an adventure. A journey. A pursuit of our creator, and a pursuit of excellence in our personal lives. A woman and her filth is part of the obstacle course set before us. If we are wise, and avoid them, we will grow stronger as a result. We will finish the race successfully.

Women was not put here to support us as such, and we will only grow stronger if we AVOID her snares.

Christopher, I support you in your quest. Please do not have sex with any women. The thought of you reproducing, even accidentally, is truly scary.

Straight talk on homophobia ... on the Men's Rights subreddit??

Oh Reddit. Sometimes you make me so sad. Case in point: the 5,415 upvotes Redditors gave to this old dog of a story, a blatantly misogynist, and blatantly made-up, revenge-vasectomy tale from the "Best of Craigslist." Mitigating factors: the fact that some commenters correctly labeled the story a hateful fake; the 4,582 downvotes the story got (resulting in "only" 833 net upvotes).

But sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised. Even as I was contemplating the idiotic reaction to this idiotic vasectomy story, I ran across another headline: "Does homophobia affect straight males too?" Good question. Weirdly, the post was from the Men's Rights subreddit. Hoping for the best but fearing the worst, I took a look. Lo and behold, the post had actually inspired a real, honest discussion of the issues.

The OP set the stage with a few specific questions:

Have you ever hesitated to become close to another male for fear that it might be misinterpreted by someone else? Was there ever a time you resisted getting close to another male emotionally because you were afraid it might be seen as sexual? Does the fear of being called gay or a faggot ever change the way you behave in front of other males?

Among the answers there were of course a few jokes, including one that was actually sort of funny:

dontputsaltinyoureye 9 points

it has had a tremendous effect on my life. i am unable to wear my avril lavigne [shirt] in public due to the fear. WHY CAN I NOT WEAR MY AVRIL LAVIGNE SHIRT?!

And there was the requisite reference to Glee:

AGenericGoon 44 points

I am heterosexual, and watch/enjoy glee.

I will take this secret to the grave.

But there were also a number of bracingly honest comments, comments that would not be out of place on a feminist or LGBT message board. Some commenters talked about being gay-bashed -- even though they aren't gay. Others talked about how hetero-normative gender roles force men to keep quiet about their feelings:

TheBananaKing 27 points

Absolutely. all -normative behaviours box people in.

Straight guy here. ... there's an awful lot of restriction and anxiety in inter-male behaviour. You can't ever be sad or hurt - only angry. You can't extend comfort or affection towards another guy, except via humorous taunting / rivalry / aggression (eg play-fighting), unless you're very, very drunk. You have to do this kind of... reverse double-entendre the entire time, translating everything into John Wayne before you speak or act it, and back again to understand others. It's a pain in the ass.

Others offered more personal takes on what it's like to be a straight guy who's frequently taken to be gay:

ecartes 9 points

I talk with a lisp and dress really well. I'm also heterosexual.

Almost everyone I initially meet believes, nay, KNOWS, that I'm, ACTUALLY homosexual. It's weird, living with the thought that everyone I meet thinks I'm gay. Although I will never know fully the oppression that some gay people face, I feel like I've felt a lot of it just from being perceived as gay. ...

And perhaps the most unexpected of all:

soylentcoleslaw 33 points

If I acted on my normal impulses, I'd be extremely effeminate. I love cute things and cute clothes, I have subconscious feminine mannerisms, and I'd love a strong partner who makes me feel safe and who would take charge. I've never had a gay fantasy in my life. The thought of being with another man just doesn't do it for me, but given what I want and who I naturally am, I'm said on numerous occasions how much easier my love life would be if it did. As it is, if I want to attract someone new, I have to tamp all that down and put on my reasonably masculine face, and maybe if I'm lucky, I can reveal some of that side of myself gradually. But I can't be totally myself. Never. ... So I go on pretending to be manly sometimes and hopefully don't screw up.

Oh, sure, there were some answers that were bluntly homophobic -- redwood9 states plainly that "I just hate fags ... I hate all cocksuckers and those who bend over and take it in the ass" -- but they made up a tiny minority of the comments, and were generally downvoted.

So what's going on here? Has the Men's Rights Subreddit suddenly become a beacon of open-mindedness? Not exactly. Most of those commenting in the topic don't appear to be Men's Rights regulars, but Redditors who were drawn to the topic when it appeared on Reddit's main page. Here's what someone who is a MR regular had to say:

aetheralloy 0 points

"Bro's" and "bromance" is the term often used to shame men ... Women (feminists) in particular love to use it. ...

The really interesting question here isn't if it affects males, but why women are both extremely homophobic towards gay males while also willing to use them as emotional buddies.

Yeah, damn those feminist women and their hatred of gay men!

So, no group hug just yet. But it's good to see an outburst of good sense in a discussion forum that's often pretty backwards.

It's just a pity that the moderator of Men's Rights remains convinced "that there is an international, feminist, antimale conspiracy," as he puts it in the sidebar, and that the subreddit's slogan remains "Earning scorn from feminists since March 19, 2008."

Because, you know what? If you're a guy feeling boxed in by normative gender roles, some of the best people in the world to talk to about it are, you know, feminists.