Our first holiday away, just Zara, myself, the van and the open road. We're off to to visit some friends of Zara and I, spend some alone time and see some sights up and down the east coast. I'll add photos every week or so of what we got up to and who we met.
Packing the van for the trip invovled more issues than I had first thought. Packing for Zara meant packing for two and she needed more room for her gear than I did.
More creepy photos at the link.
Doll Forum ...
ReplyDeleteWell, at least this has really nothing to do with the MRAs.
Yes, it does. The same way fembots and stepford wives do...
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I don't find them particularly objectifying or offensive. Specific individuals can see them as such (i.e. as replacements for women) or simply as sex toys a la dildos, buttplugs, fleshlights, etc. Also, it is not objectifying per se at least not in the same sense as a real life woman is objectified nor is it being toted as a woman replacement or ideal (though specific individuals may.)
This reminds me of the movie with Ryan Gosling and the doll...
Yohan: Read this blog's new subtitle, and the new description in the sidebar. Also: look at the tags below this post. Is "MRA" one of them? Nope!
ReplyDeleteThat said, as Tec notes, there are plenty of MRAs who are obsessed with the idea of replacing women with sexbots, and these adult doll owners have a lot in common with them.
So let's see, you make fun of men for trying to suppress their sexuality and be voluntarily celibate, you make fun of men for wanting sex bots, and you make fun of men for owning sex dolls. I'm getting the distinct impression that you enjoy bullying those unfortunate men who are unable to gain acceptance from real women, and THAT is much creepier to me than taking a sex doll on vacation.
ReplyDeleteCan't resist kicking a man when he's down, can you? Here's a man who has to suffer something most women woman will never experience - extended, profound loneliness which is not self-induced - and you seem to think you can both attack him and take the moral highroad.
ReplyDeleteThen you go on to claim women are oppressed and men are privileged.
So, what really inspired you to be a feminist, David? Did your father beat your mother? If so, what he did was wrong, but don't project him onto all men.
There aren't plenty of mras obsessed with the idea of sex robots, but there are plenty of MRAs that are smart enough to know that its technology that changes and liberates us from gender roles.
ReplyDeleteDavid Futrelle said...
ReplyDeleteYohan: Read this blog's new subtitle, and the new description in the sidebar. Also: look at the tags below this post. Is "MRA" one of them? Nope!
That said, as Tec notes, there are plenty of MRAs who are obsessed with the idea of replacing women with sexbots, and these adult doll owners have a lot in common with them.
The introducing text of this blog changed a little bit... And?
I never met any MRA who is into dolls. Has TEC any reference to back up such a ridiculous claim?
Dolls - I guess, this is more about a computer freak, who is replacing everything around him with technical/artificial articles/robots.
What has a doll to do with men's rights?
And btw, there are also male dolls - that's for feminists?
That's so sad. It's one thing to have a sex toy, it's another to have an imaginary friend. This is what happens when you don't learn how to form intimate relationships.
ReplyDeleteCold, if someone wants to be celibate, I have no problem with that, and it's really none of my business.
ReplyDeleteIf someone like Christopher in Oregan (who I talked about in a couple of posts) is celibate because he thinks women are all dirty filthy whores, and he spends a lot of time and effort to convince other men to be celibate because women are dirty filthy whores, I'm going to comment on that -- not so much because of the celibacy as because of the misogyny.
Same with sexbots. If someone is looking forward to sexbots because they could ba awesome sex toys, again, that's their business. But the MRAs who are into them are into them because they think sexbots will put real women "in their place," knock them down a peg or two, and destroy feminism in the process. So, yeah, I'm going to write about that -- again, not so much because of their desire to have sex with sexbots, which after all are just fancy sex toys, as because of their misogyny and antifeminism.
These guys and their dolls, I just think it's weird and creepy and a little sad that so many guys will go this far to avoid the possibility of relationships with real women.
IR, your speculation about my parents is not only unfounded but completely inappropriate and over the line. Any more shit like that and you're outta here.
@ David
ReplyDeleteI see you're revving up the ban train eh, David? I knew you're feminst butt couldn't tolerate dissent from MEN for long. Like I said before old Davey can't play white knight feminist hero with MRA'S figuratively slapping the snot out of him and the feminuts.
Also, it's funny to me that men are biologically programmed to be attracted to women, and pretty much all straight men are, but due to feminism even that natural inborn attraction isn't enough for more and more men. Smart women might be able to figure that out, but women in general and feminist in particular seem to have a problem with cause and effect. That feminists have actually made so many interactions with women so fraught with peril that more and more men believe that a piece of plastic is not merely a better sex toy, like a dildo, but a better long term partner than a woman is a testament to how far women have fallen. Yet all feminuts can say is that it's weird or misogynistic. No mirrors in feminist homes apparently.
Random Brother
David: These guys and their dolls, I just think it's weird and creepy and a little sad that so many guys will go this far to avoid the possibility of relationships with real women.
ReplyDeleteMay I ask you what means for you 'so many guys' - how many is many? 1 percent of all men, or less or more?
I have never seen any research in this issue, but I guess most of these men are very young.
These men do not avoid any relationship with real women, but they are not able to find any nice woman.
Loneliness might be a major reason to invest into such a doll, maybe.
Still better than suicide. Most people committing suicide are males, David - do you know that?
Sandy said...
That's so sad. It's one thing to have a sex toy, it's another to have an imaginary friend. This is what happens when you don't learn how to form intimate relationships.
I wonder how you can 'learn' that and what to learn. For a man, any intimate relationship with a female is risky and is nothing else but pure luck, nothing what he can do about it.
It depends more or less on the woman and she might leave him for any other guy any time or leave you even without any understandable reason.
@yohan,
ReplyDeleteHow do you know that the reason these men use these dolls is because they can't find any nice women? You state that as fact so you must have something to back that bold claim up.
@Yohan
ReplyDeleteYou must be suffering from dementia because David has done posts from actual MRAs espousing support for sexbots and stepford wive type women... Do I really have to quote previous blog posts from this blog?
"I wonder how you can 'learn' that and what to learn. For a man, any intimate relationship with a female is risky and is nothing else but pure luck, nothing what he can do about it. "
Easy step 1 stop being an asshole who oozes hatred from his pores to the point any women who wasn't an Aspie (well, any human being at all really) would be able to tell from your language, tone, body language, and actual BS opinions that you are an angry, misogynistic person whom they should never, ever, ever, ever iteract with... Once you get there, I'll give you step 2.
Do you really think people who are so angry they want to punch total strangers are gonna really have great luck in relationships???? It's systemic from their anger and hatred, not from women... And guess, what? No one can make you feel anything - you, me, everyone, chooses their own feelings. Thinking someone can make you feel anything is a cognitive distortion and a way of projecting. I suggest you look at Viktor Frankl, a psychiatrist and holocaust survivor...
Also, there are many, many men who have great relationships with women all the time. They may not work out, they may move on to different relationships, but they don't harbour an undying hatred towards 1/2 the population just for existing. It has nothing to do with luck. How bout you stop projecting your issues onto ALL men? Not every man hates women, not a majority, not even a significant minority...
Yohan, everyone learns how to form intimate relationships during childhood (by intimate I mean personally intimate not necessarily sexual). Children may fail to do this if they do not have sufficiently caring and stable relationships in childhood. This is known as attachment disorder.
ReplyDeleteSandy, I realize that being a woman yourself you probably take it for granted that you can basically have a relationship with a member of the sex to which you are attracted anytime you want, but please try to broaden your perspective and realize that for many heterosexual men this is simply not the case. Maybe for SOME of them the issue is attachment disorder, but I think most of them know perfectly well how to form an intimate relationship and the problem is that they can't find a woman who wants to form one with them.
ReplyDeleteContrary to Tec's solipsistic perspective, many women find men seething with anger and hatred to be quite attractive, often to the point that after ending one relationship with such a man, they will jump right into another with a similar man and reject any genuinely nice guys.
"These guys and their dolls, I just think it's weird and creepy and a little sad that so many guys will go this far to avoid the possibility of relationships with real women."
ReplyDeleteHow do you know that they are AVOIDING relationships with real women? I think it's far more likely that relationships with real women are simply unavailable to them, but there is no language in the thread to support either theory.
I'm not a particularly empathetic person, but even I am overcome with PITY when I see situations like this. You, on the other hand, have the primary reaction of finding it "creepy" and you then make a post with the following tags "creepy, funny, men who should not ever be with women ever, pics". David, I may be Cold, but you are ICE COLD.
Cold, if a person cannot find anyone who wants to form a relationship with him/her, then the common denominator is that person. The person is having difficulty forming relationships. In its most severe form this is called an attachment disorder, although of course there are less severe cases.
ReplyDeleteOk I tried to get you to broaden your perspective and to understand that many heterosexual men don't have the easy access to relationships enjoyed by women, but apparently that is beyond your capabilities.
ReplyDeleteCold, it's clear why you are so entrenched in your beliefs. Rather than listen and engage in respectful discussion, you conclude your conversation partner is stupid and has nothing to offer you.
ReplyDeleteYour view on this makes absolutely no sense. It is not the fault of women if men cannot form relationships. If a woman does not want relationships with a man, that is her choice.
Men have difficulty forming intimate relationships because they are socialized to be independent and self resourceful. Unfortunately most people need some form of intimate connection to be happy. Men therefore turn to services like escorts to find intimate connection.
Someone whose ability to bond and form intimate connections is so weak he turns to imaginary friends most likely has an attachment disorder.
I said nothing about assigning blame to either men or women. You cast your own intelligence into doubt by demonstrating both a complete lack of skepticism and a significant lack of reading comprehension. In addition, I think you experience great difficulty in trying to understand situations that you have not directly experienced yourself, however I don't consider that particular failing to be a knock against one's general intelligence.
ReplyDeleteThere you go again, rather than engaging in discussion you want to discuss whether I am stupid and on what issues.
ReplyDeleteTec said...
ReplyDelete@Yohan
You must be suffering from dementia because David has done posts from actual MRAs ...
I was asking David about dolls/MRAs, who mentioned about 'so many guys' - but how many is many? 1 percent of all men, or less or more?
I said further, I have never seen any research in this issue regarding dolls/men and David and you fail to answer this question.
I also said, there are male dolls, and was asking if this is for feminists?
What has this to do with dementia?
It seems you have reading difficulties, TEC.
Sandy: Your view on this makes absolutely no sense. It is not the fault of women if men cannot form relationships. If a woman does not want relationships with a man, that is her choice.
It is not the fault of men either, if women cannot form stable relationships. And if a man does not want a relationship with certain women and is rejecting them that is his choice.
While you find it perfectly normal, that women reject men, it seems to me that men rejecting women are misogynists in the mindset of David and maybe in yours too.
Christine WE said...
@yohan,
How do you know that the reason these men use these dolls is because they can't find any nice women? You state that as fact so you must have something to back that bold claim up.
Good question.
1 -
Well, just what I can see, first of all look at any dating website and you will find that men outnumber women strongly, often 6:1.
2 -
It is said, that 80 percent of women keep a relationship with 20 percent of all men. Usually these men are older than these women - for sure money and property plays a major role.
Young men often have nothing to offer except in case their parents are rich.
A large group of young men remains 'single' without hope to find any girl. Not only in Western countries, but also in Islamic countries, in China, India ...
3 -
And there are social problems known with some certain groups of young men, they do not know personally even one person, doing some work, going back to their little room, internet and sleeping. Totally into loneliness and isolation. These young men are possible buyers for such a doll, I guess.
4 -
And consider suicide rates as a source, too. Most are men.
5 -
There are also other reasons too to stay away from a relationship with a woman in Western countries. Many men gave up after being disappointed several times and are unwilling or also financially unable to try it out again and are looking for any 'alternate solution'.
A man who gave up and remains silent is not an MRA however.
6 -
Men in Islamic countries have different problems. Consider all these huge dowry-demands from women and their parents. The result is the same however, loneliness among a huge group of young men.
Who says, all these dolls are only for Western men?
7 - And consider prostitution, only in Germany there are now over 400.000 REGISTERED full-time prostitutes working, like a job. Not to talk about freelancers, doing it sometimes in secret.
Many of them are young women, they offer sex only against money. These young women are missing for the ordinary dating scene.
So my conclusion is that many young men cannot find a nice woman, and it's really pure luck if something is working out as expected.
There are clearly relatively less women than men available in the young-age group out of various reasons.
While young women enjoy sex with several men, young men often find nobody except prostitutes and 'alternative solutions'.
Sandy: Someone whose ability to bond and form intimate connections is so weak he turns to imaginary friends most likely has an attachment disorder.
ReplyDeleteThis statement is only partially true. What to do if nobody is available to form an intimate connection?
If men clearly outnumber women within a certain age group, some men must be left over and you cannot blame only these men for that.
And not to mention about Western laws making any relationship difficult, and about financial demands many men cannot fulfill...etc. etc. etc.
Therefore these men are going 'their own way' as there is no other way to go for them - some stay single, some commit suicide, some are looking for a foreign wife overseas, many of them are into prostitution and pornography, and some of them (I think, not so many) might buy such a doll...
Wow..so if you're creepy and weird and want me to do things I don't want to do...you not being in a relationship is my fault not yours?
ReplyDeleteYeah. I ...totally get that one.
Its interesting to see where this is going to go, with monogamy out of the way on replaced by the transient harem and the distinction between dating and prostitution becomes more blurred there is definitely going to be a huge market for alternatives, also these excluded men will make up the largest political class. IMO big feminism will eventually relent on its war on prostitution and there will be a regulated and normalized sex trade.
ReplyDeleteIts also going to interesting to see what this class of men will go on to create.
"Wow..so if you're creepy and weird and want me to do things I don't want to do...you not being in a relationship is my fault not yours?"
ReplyDeleteSee THAT is yet another example of assigning blame to men for not having a relationship despite wanting one, as well as an example of pure misandrist speculation. I , on the other hand, never actually said it was anyone's fault; just that the reality of life is that heterosexual women have easy access to relationships while most heterosexual men do not. DNA evidence supports this by showing that women are about twice as likely as men to propagate their genes.
Cold
ReplyDeleteon the flip side if they cant get a guy to commit (resources), he is assigned blame and shamed with "afraid of commitment" and immaturity.