This thread is intended for discussions of kittens and their telephone usage, but I will answer the question: feminism is a much larger and more influential movement than men's rights will ever be, primarily because women have been and continue to be disadvantaged by sexism much, much more than men. Feminism is a broad and diverse movement, and some varieties in my mind have done harm (Dworkin et al), but overall feminism has done far, far more good than harm. The Men's Rights Movement has far less influence, and has mostly done harm.
@David What harm has the Men's Rights Movement done? I can think of three ways it has done good: 1. Increased custody of fathers - legislation has been passed in states like California giving fathers a fighting chance during custody battles. The MRM and its sympathizers helped spread this message. 2. Decreased marriage rates - the MRM has helped decrease marriage rates. Marriage has a 50% failure rate, and rarely ends in justice. Hence, kudos to the MRM. 3. The start of a "Male Studies" program. This offers a place for all men to acknowledge what masculinity is and their sexuality, without taking an apologetic stance towards femininity. The MRM has almost exclusively set up the dialogue and the foundation for this program.
So, in what substantial ways has the MRM caused harm? I don't want comments, I want negative actions motivated by the MRM like the ones I listed above. Sure, it's cute when a feminist calls the MRM the "abuser's lobby," but like most feminist statements that fails to quantify any actions caused by the so-called "abuser's lobby." I'm eagerly awaiting your innumerable examples.
What harm has the MRM done? Well, if you are a feminist, you might take umbrage to the movement for exposing the mendacities of much of feminist theory (particularly second wave feminism) based on Marxist balogna. If you look at feminist evolution, you will see that the "beourgeousis" has been replaced by "patriarchy" starting really in the early 1970's. You might also find offensive the questioning of advocacy research that supports the affirmation of women and the defamation of boys and men. That is why the "boy crisis" is such a threat to feminists.
This picture clealy shows the damaging effects of the PATRIRACHY! The poor innocent female cat is looking to make a phone call, but the evil MRA loving male cat has removed the receiver AND has his pawtriarichal paws on the dialer, denying her phone call and more importantly her self actualization! The "male" cat doesn't even see this womyn cat as a full cat! Look at his beedy "male" cat eyes! How long before this "male" cat enacts his privilidge and rapes the innocent womyn cat?! Already you can see his evil male gaze molesting her feminine paw! Laws must be passed! Monies must be taken in the form of taxes! "Male" cats must be castrated! These "male" cats must be socialized into not being "male" and being more like the perfect and flawless, multifacited female species. Only when the female's of the species have everything and then some, will there be equality. If you don't agree with me, then YOU HATE KITTENS. This post contains sarcasm. Random Brother
Another important fact is financing social services, health etc. - More than 91 billion Euro of the budget was transferred from men to women for health care and other social services, and same is true in Switzerland, 12 billion Euro transfer from men to women.
Demonetization of men, boys and masculinity. Equal rights, treatment and opportunity in education, employment and law. Equal rights for abuse victims. Equal punishment for abusers. Exposing hidden and protected abuse. Equality in health. Honest and real research into gender as opposed to ideological screeds.
The fact that these things are offensive to most feminists is more a poor reflection on what feminism has become than it is on the mrm which seems to be the side that is occupying the humanistic and morally correct positions.
"feminism is a much larger and more influential movement than men's rights will ever be, primarily because women have been and continue to be disadvantaged by sexism much, much more than men".
More like because women are the majority and transient vote and drivers of/enablers of consumerism and mass media. Also, women are privileged in terms of education, entitlements, employment law, spending power, health and the ability to access resources without engaging the wage slave system by harnessing the resources of men.
"but overall feminism has done far, far more good than harm the Men's Rights Movement has far less influence, and has mostly done harm".
I'm not going to get into an endless debate on all this in comments here. I may post about it at some point in the future. But in short: the MRM basically hasn't done shit but foment hatred of women and the spreading of falsehoods (see my "further reading" posts for details). Not all MRAs foment hatred of women, of course, but they don't really do anything positive to speak of, and only very very rarely speak out against the misogyny in the MRM.
It's the "father's rights" movement that has actually made a little bit of a dent on the world, or better or worse.
I'll deal with some of this in future posts. But the fact is none of you are interested in an actual debate, anyway. If past behavior is any indication, you'll simply ignore or dismiss the evidence I post (without reading it), post completely random factoids (as Yohan has done above), and/or conjure up big batches of falsehoods about feminism.
David, you could at least have the personal integrity and honesty to admit you aren't exactly interested in a debate either. I can't tell you how many times I've seen you ignore completely civil yet well thought-out counterarguments to your posts here in favor of responding to the obvious trolls and spammers (and then pretending as if those same trolls and spammers are the only people in the movement at all).
J, I don't have time to respond to every comment here (there are over 3000 of them), and sometimes my priority is to respond to obvious falsehoods, misrepresentations of what I've said, general abusive comments, etc. I don't think I've ignored many substantive, on-topic comments. There haven't been that many of them.
By "none of you" in my above comments I meant those who posted in this thread.
Now you are going way too far you MISANDRIC PUTZ!
ReplyDeleteThis is without a doubt the most sexually inflammatory post you have ever written!
I offer a question:
ReplyDeleteYou have hand-picked many quotes from no-name nobodies in MRM circles.
I'll agree that there are quite a few nuts in the MRM circles.
However - Feminists have also said many nutty things - the lists can be found everywhere in MRM circles.
What's the difference?
The feminists who said such outrageous things were somehow more in the lame-stream media than Paul Elam, Reddit etc...
Wouldn't you agree?
That is, the nutty feminist quotes can be found in books, newspapers, TV etc...
The nutty MRM are typically only found on blogs - in fact, it seems they are not even on blogs, but rather, comments on blogs...
So - question 2:
Which group of "nuts" has done more damage to society with their "nutiness" and "douchebaggery"?
Feminists or MRA's?
Scarecrow: I would have to say Batman villains have done the most evil in this world. STOP TRYING TO KILL BATMAN! BATS ARE NICE!
ReplyDeleteWow, scarecrow can even try to derail a post that is nothing but a picture of kittens. Then again, why am I surprised?
ReplyDeleteI bet those stupid feminist kittens are calling up men and being like IS YOUR REFRIGERATOR RUNNING HAHA?
ReplyDeleteThose fuzzy little fuckers.
"Which group of "nuts" has done more damage to society with their "nutiness" and "douchebaggery"?"
ReplyDeleteThey are avoiding the question Scarecrow because the truth is way too obvious.
Feminism has made it a social trend these days amongst western women to have a peevish and paranoid attitude against men.
This thread is intended for discussions of kittens and their telephone usage, but I will answer the question: feminism is a much larger and more influential movement than men's rights will ever be, primarily because women have been and continue to be disadvantaged by sexism much, much more than men. Feminism is a broad and diverse movement, and some varieties in my mind have done harm (Dworkin et al), but overall feminism has done far, far more good than harm. The Men's Rights Movement has far less influence, and has mostly done harm.
ReplyDelete@David
ReplyDeleteWhat harm has the Men's Rights Movement done? I can think of three ways it has done good:
1. Increased custody of fathers - legislation has been passed in states like California giving fathers a fighting chance during custody battles. The MRM and its sympathizers helped spread this message.
2. Decreased marriage rates - the MRM has helped decrease marriage rates. Marriage has a 50% failure rate, and rarely ends in justice. Hence, kudos to the MRM.
3. The start of a "Male Studies" program. This offers a place for all men to acknowledge what masculinity is and their sexuality, without taking an apologetic stance towards femininity. The MRM has almost exclusively set up the dialogue and the foundation for this program.
So, in what substantial ways has the MRM caused harm? I don't want comments, I want negative actions motivated by the MRM like the ones I listed above. Sure, it's cute when a feminist calls the MRM the "abuser's lobby," but like most feminist statements that fails to quantify any actions caused by the so-called "abuser's lobby."
I'm eagerly awaiting your innumerable examples.
What harm has the MRM done? Well, if you are a feminist, you might take umbrage to the movement for exposing the mendacities of much of feminist theory (particularly second wave feminism) based on Marxist balogna. If you look at feminist evolution, you will see that the "beourgeousis" has been replaced by "patriarchy" starting really in the early 1970's. You might also find offensive the questioning of advocacy research that supports the affirmation of women and the defamation of boys and men. That is why the "boy crisis" is such a threat to feminists.
ReplyDeleteThis picture clealy shows the damaging effects of the PATRIRACHY!
ReplyDeleteThe poor innocent female cat is looking to make a phone call, but the evil MRA loving male cat has removed the receiver AND has his pawtriarichal paws on the dialer, denying her phone call and more importantly her self actualization! The "male" cat doesn't even see this womyn cat as a full cat!
Look at his beedy "male" cat eyes!
How long before this "male" cat enacts his privilidge and rapes the innocent womyn cat?!
Already you can see his evil male gaze molesting her feminine paw!
Laws must be passed! Monies must be taken in the form of taxes! "Male" cats must be castrated! These "male" cats must be socialized into not being "male" and being more like the perfect and flawless, multifacited female species.
Only when the female's of the species have everything and then some, will there be equality. If you don't agree with me, then
YOU
HATE
KITTENS.
This post contains sarcasm.
Random Brother
magdelyn said...
ReplyDeleteWhat harm has the MRM done?
Maybe David can explain...
It depends of course what you consider as 'harm'.
For example German feminists were claiming 24 percent gender pay gap.
http://manndat.de/feministische-mythen/eine-legende-broeckelt-nun-auch-offiziell.html
The Men's Rights Movement in Germany was very busy to ask the Federal Statistical Office for a new study of the Gender Pay Gap.
The official result,
dated 25th October 2010:
The Gender Pay Gap is (maximum) 8 percent, far away from (average)23 or 24 percent what feminists are claiming.
To say this I am now a misogynist?
http://manndat.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Analyse_Gender-Budgeting.pdf
Another important fact is financing social services, health etc. - More than 91 billion Euro of the budget was transferred from men to women for health care and other social services, and same is true in Switzerland, 12 billion Euro transfer from men to women.
This study is dated 5th March 2010
To say this, the MRAs are harmful to women?
The main issues for the mrm are
ReplyDeleteDemonetization of men, boys and masculinity.
Equal rights, treatment and opportunity in education, employment and law.
Equal rights for abuse victims.
Equal punishment for abusers.
Exposing hidden and protected abuse.
Equality in health.
Honest and real research into gender as opposed to ideological screeds.
The fact that these things are offensive to most feminists is more a poor reflection on what feminism has become than it is on the mrm which seems to be the side that is occupying the humanistic and morally correct positions.
@David
ReplyDelete"feminism is a much larger and more influential movement than men's rights will ever be, primarily because women have been and continue to be disadvantaged by sexism much, much more than men".
More like because women are the majority and transient vote and drivers of/enablers of consumerism and mass media. Also, women are privileged in terms of education, entitlements, employment law, spending power, health and the ability to access resources without engaging the wage slave system by harnessing the resources of men.
"but overall feminism has done far, far more good than harm the Men's Rights Movement has far less influence, and has mostly done harm".
Can you tell us how the MRM has done harm?
@Eoghan.
ReplyDeleteOf course he cannot tell us how it has done harm...
He likes to pull things out of thin air - and pass them off as fact.
This is how feminists work...
I'm not going to get into an endless debate on all this in comments here. I may post about it at some point in the future. But in short: the MRM basically hasn't done shit but foment hatred of women and the spreading of falsehoods (see my "further reading" posts for details). Not all MRAs foment hatred of women, of course, but they don't really do anything positive to speak of, and only very very rarely speak out against the misogyny in the MRM.
ReplyDeleteIt's the "father's rights" movement that has actually made a little bit of a dent on the world, or better or worse.
I'll deal with some of this in future posts. But the fact is none of you are interested in an actual debate, anyway. If past behavior is any indication, you'll simply ignore or dismiss the evidence I post (without reading it), post completely random factoids (as Yohan has done above), and/or conjure up big batches of falsehoods about feminism.
David, you could at least have the personal integrity and honesty to admit you aren't exactly interested in a debate either. I can't tell you how many times I've seen you ignore completely civil yet well thought-out counterarguments to your posts here in favor of responding to the obvious trolls and spammers (and then pretending as if those same trolls and spammers are the only people in the movement at all).
ReplyDeleteJ, I don't have time to respond to every comment here (there are over 3000 of them), and sometimes my priority is to respond to obvious falsehoods, misrepresentations of what I've said, general abusive comments, etc. I don't think I've ignored many substantive, on-topic comments. There haven't been that many of them.
ReplyDeleteBy "none of you" in my above comments I meant those who posted in this thread.
Pawtriarchy. That has a nice ring to it.
ReplyDeletePAWTRIRACHY. PAWTRIARCHY! The eeeeeeeviiiiilllll PAWTRIARCHY!!!!!!!
The way feminists treat men is apawlling.
Feminists use laws to take away men's pawperty.
This post contains nothing worthwhile.
Random Brother
"This post contains nothing worthwhile."
ReplyDeleteTrue, but it is on topic.
Pawnorgraphy objectifies felines pawportions.
ReplyDeleteHer pawerful pawp was a pawtriarch and pawed her pawthetically.
Man that was awful.
Random Brother
Post more kittens. I like Havana Browns.
ReplyDelete(And yes I know that sounds ghey)
Random Brother.