tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post4804159203006320512..comments2023-10-12T02:29:10.937-05:00Comments on the we hunted the mammoth (formerly man boobz) blogger archive: Campus creep outAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00569290850910434331noreply@blogger.comBlogger154125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-37433069945986982452010-12-30T18:42:34.171-06:002010-12-30T18:42:34.171-06:00"Twist it all you want, the women caught the ...<i>"Twist it all you want, the women caught the disease from half their number. There is no way to twist this stat! </i>"<br /><br />which implies precisely nothing about the number of uninfected men they've slept with, or whether the herpes-carriers are in fact "alphas", as everyone is trying to explain to you. you're innumerate.Jadehawkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15469173565648873918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-43839927203252319222010-12-30T18:08:00.095-06:002010-12-30T18:08:00.095-06:00Twist it all you want, the women caught the diseas...Twist it all you want, the women caught the disease from half their number. There is no way to twist this stat!Whitneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01882605740146461384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-36492057294915464072010-12-30T15:55:51.311-06:002010-12-30T15:55:51.311-06:00The willful ignorance being that he's applying...The willful ignorance being that he's applying his math atop his begging the question. Sure, your math works, sort of, if you're already assuming that the smaller percentage of infected men is highly localized within a very small segment of the entire male population.Pamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02789436253418072535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-75391172246879203832010-12-30T14:49:45.343-06:002010-12-30T14:49:45.343-06:00I assume you're just being willfully ignorant ...I assume you're just being willfully ignorant at this point.<br /><br />Men who have herpes might indeed be having a lot of sex, which would explain why they're spreading it to so many women. But the herpes stats say nothing about the men who DON'T have herpes. For all we know from the numbers, they could be having as much, if not more sex than the herpes group, and just aren't contracting the disease from women who have it. <br /><br />You're saying that the stats prove that a small number of men are having sex with a large number of women, whereas it could equally be the case that a large number of men are having sex with a large number of women. The point is WE CAN'T KNOW based on the information given what percentage of men are having sex with what percentage of women, given that it's entirely possible that men without herpes could have had as much sex as the herpes group without having contracting the disease.Blackwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01306095667255512075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-67855579730379455302010-12-30T14:47:32.080-06:002010-12-30T14:47:32.080-06:00Sigh. I'll try to explain this one last time.
...Sigh. I'll try to explain this one last time.<br /><br />People, male and female, sleep with multiple partners.<br /><br />Let's say a woman sleeps with 5 guys, 2 of whom have herpes. Meanwhile, a man sleeps with 5 women, 2 of whom have herpes. <br /><br />Even though they've each slept with the <b>same number of partners</b>, the woman is much more likely to end up with herpes from these encounters than the man is.<br /><br />When this happens again and again in a large population, you end up with more women than men having herpes.<br /><br />So the difference in rates of herpes does not in any way prove widespread hypergamy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00569290850910434331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-39738177957737726962010-12-30T14:29:45.693-06:002010-12-30T14:29:45.693-06:00Or a large number of women infected half as many m...Or a large number of women infected half as many men. Unless there are a disproportionate amount of rug munchers who are infected with Herpes, it's sound math.Whitneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01882605740146461384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-75263796161261818822010-12-30T14:23:46.328-06:002010-12-30T14:23:46.328-06:00And it proves that a small number of men infected ...And it proves that a small number of men infected twice as many women. The women are not catching Herpes from toilet seats or from un-infected individuals.<br /><br />Do you get the other side of the math coin here?Whitneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01882605740146461384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-60096725354531553412010-12-30T13:37:39.694-06:002010-12-30T13:37:39.694-06:00Witman,
It's clearly you that has difficulty...Witman, <br /><br />It's clearly you that has difficulty with math. The point that women can contract herpes more easily than men doesn't prove hypergamy at all.<br /><br />Example:<br />A woman sleeps with one infected male and contracts herpes herself.<br />She then has sex with 20 other men (all uninfected), but none of them contracts herpes off of her. <br /><br />All it proves is that she did sleep with one man who had herpes, not how many other men she slept with.Blackwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01306095667255512075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-26101575029955239932010-12-30T13:20:27.788-06:002010-12-30T13:20:27.788-06:00BTW, I read the entire OP and all the comments. I...BTW, I read the entire OP and all the comments. I am merely pointing out the rather large elephant in the room that everyone else is ignoring.<br /><br />They aren't getting herpes from non-infected individuals so the hypergamy theory holds water.Whitneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01882605740146461384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-37497117733281269632010-12-30T13:15:39.411-06:002010-12-30T13:15:39.411-06:00Obviously I don't understand the part that con...Obviously I don't understand the part that conveniently ignores the fact that many women contracted Herpes from half as many men.<br /><br />And I fully understand (NOT) that when a woman claims to be raped, she is 100% credible but when she recants her testimony she is a liar.Whitneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01882605740146461384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-60028197614922573602010-12-30T12:49:20.542-06:002010-12-30T12:49:20.542-06:00witman, what part of
if a non-infected man and w...witman, what part of <br /><br /><i>if a non-infected man and woman each have intercourse with an infected partner, the woman is more likely than the man to contract a herpes simplex virus infection.</i> <br /><br />do you not understand? <br /><br />I posted that in a comment above; Pam posted the same information with some links; I also posted about this in my latest post. <br /><br />Please read before commenting.<br /><br />And on false rape accusations:<br /><br />http://manboobz.blogspot.com/2010/11/mens-rights-myth-false-rape-accusations.htmlAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00569290850910434331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-9211904687978965492010-12-30T12:36:46.710-06:002010-12-30T12:36:46.710-06:00@Pam,
Glenn Sacks reported on a study which found...@Pam,<br /><br />Glenn Sacks reported on a study which found that a large percent of rape claims were false. They didn't use lack of evidence to prove these stats, they used the women's own admissions that they were false and further went to a panel of observers to determine if they thought a particular woman was coerced into that admission. If they determined she may have been coerced, the claim was put back on the viable pile. <br /><br />http://www.glennsacks.com/blog/?page_id=1334Whitneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01882605740146461384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-20499459296925614772010-12-30T12:31:19.387-06:002010-12-30T12:31:19.387-06:00Why are feminists so bad at math? The women are n...Why are feminists so bad at math? The women are not contracting herpes from uninfected individuals now are they?<br /><br />Let's completely ignore the fact that those women who are FOUR TIMES MORE LIKELY to contract herpes got it from the same % of men with herpes.<br /><br />The fact that they are FOUR TIMES MORE LIKELY to contract herpes only serves to highlight the case that they are all vying for the attentions of the same small percent of males and it bit them in the ass (so to speak).Whitneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01882605740146461384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-70106989455378523122010-12-30T05:50:48.282-06:002010-12-30T05:50:48.282-06:00...though keep in mind that the greater susceptibi...<i>...though keep in mind that the greater susceptibility of women to VDs like herpes isn't necessarily proof/evidence that they're *not* hypergamous either</i><br />That's a valid point, just as, for instance, lack of evidence to go to trial or to obtain a guilty verdict in a rape trial does *not* necessarily mean that the defendant is innocent/not guilty in actuality or that the complainant has made a false accusation. But MRAs would not likely accept that same logic as I have applied it here.Pamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02789436253418072535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-89809857162012469492010-12-30T03:26:55.501-06:002010-12-30T03:26:55.501-06:00Thank you for your responses, Jadehawk and M.
It...Thank you for your responses, Jadehawk and M. <br /><br /><i>It would take less effort for the MRA's to push society back to the 1950's (or the 1850's, for that matter) than it took feminists to get us OUT of them.</i><br /><br />Perhaps so, but that's not really saying much...the amount of effort MRAs would have to spend to roll back "progress" is absolutely herculean compared to the amount of effort your typical non-MRA man (or woman) would have to spend to do the same. <br /><br /><i>I am fully capable of doing both: indulging my SIWOTI Syndrome on the fringes, and being an activist for more central issues.</i><br /><br />*Shrugs* fair enough. What you do with your time is neither my business or my concern, especially since I'm not invested in your struggles or causes. By all means, then, indulge your SIWOTI, I suppose I owe you an apology, again, if I have inflamed it. <br /><br />Now, in reference to the herpes thing, thank you for the link, Mr. Futrelle. I do agree that Roissy's case is weakened by that biological fact, though keep in mind that the greater susceptibility of women to VDs like herpes isn't necessarily proof/evidence that they're *not* hypergamous either. Still, it does cast doubt on that piece of Roissy's. Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-41775685502388224672010-12-29T21:08:20.722-06:002010-12-29T21:08:20.722-06:00LOL!! And that's exactly what I did, exhale o...LOL!! And that's exactly what I did, exhale of smoke and all!!<br /><br />Their tired out laments about hypergamy (used in a context that is not actually hypergamy) are getting rather stale.Pamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02789436253418072535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-16435153329032837362010-12-29T20:58:01.207-06:002010-12-29T20:58:01.207-06:00ooh, I *heart* Peggy ;-)ooh, I *heart* Peggy ;-)Jadehawkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15469173565648873918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-13600501494862801272010-12-29T20:53:52.593-06:002010-12-29T20:53:52.593-06:00Pam, I like the idea that the both of us independe...Pam, I like the idea that the both of us independently reacted to that herpes = hypergamy argument by saying to ourselves, "that's bullshit," and heading to Google to find an instant rebuttal. <br /><br />Somehow it makes me think of this: <br /><br />http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lalu3ncXh61qzfv2r.gifAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00569290850910434331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-32755180268146709812010-12-29T19:47:20.253-06:002010-12-29T19:47:20.253-06:00Lots of great food for thought in this discussion....Lots of great food for thought in this discussion. <br /><br />Since I started reading this blog a few weeks ago, I've come to the realisation that MRAs hate feminism because they think it's a female version of their own ideology. Because these men promote male superiority (not equality), have contempt for the opposite sex, and want to restore all laws to privilege themselves, they believe that's what feminists are after for women. They literally don't understand how a women's movement can have anything other than control of men as an ultimate goal, because they've molded a men's group with the exact opposite goal. Every time I read bizarre claims about feminists considering women superior and wanting to dominate the world, I have to forcibly remind myself that they're approaching feminism as a parallel ideology to their own brand of sexist bigotry. <br /><br />I don't need to tell anyone who knows anything about feminism that this is a massive misapprehension and has absolutely nothing to do with feminist ideology, but it's worth remembering in the context of this blog that this is how MRAs view feminism, and why they feel threatened by it.Blackwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01306095667255512075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-35984704091964505222010-12-29T19:24:50.738-06:002010-12-29T19:24:50.738-06:00the herpes thing is a perfect example of how PUAs ...<i>the herpes thing is a perfect example of how PUAs misuse science in order to fit the world to their preconceptions.</i><br />And they accuse women of being purely solipsistic **roll eyes**Pamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02789436253418072535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-52750725154043608532010-12-29T19:17:09.547-06:002010-12-29T19:17:09.547-06:00"Women are approximately 4 times more likely ..."Women are approximately 4 times more likely to acquire a herpes simplex type 2 infection than men. Susceptible women have a higher likelihood of contracting genital herpes from an infected man than a susceptible man becoming infected by a woman."<br /><a href="http://dermatology.about.com/cs/genitalherpes/a/genherp_women.htm" rel="nofollow">Genital Herpes Symptoms in Women</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/std/herpes/stdfact-herpes.htm" rel="nofollow">Genital Herpes - CDC Fact Sheet</a><br /><br />So there goes the few Alpha males "giving the gift" to a large number of females who don't fuck anyone BUT Alpha males theory.Pamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02789436253418072535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-48644006001607072102010-12-29T19:12:11.552-06:002010-12-29T19:12:11.552-06:00I'm a little behind on the discussion here, bu...I'm a little behind on the discussion here, but to go back to a point you made, vagrant, the herpes thing is a perfect example of how PUAs misuse science in order to fit the world to their preconceptions. More women than men have herpes because it is easier for them to get it.<br /><br /><i>Genital Herpes Transmission in Women<br />Women are approximately 4 times more likely to acquire a herpes simplex type 2 infection than men. Susceptible women have a higher likelihood of contracting genital herpes from an infected man than a susceptible man becoming infected by a woman. In other words, <b>if a non-infected man and woman each have intercourse with an infected partner, the woman is more likely than the man to contract a herpes simplex virus infection.</b><br /><br />Why Women are at Greater Risk with Genital Herpes<br />Women may be more susceptible to genital herpes infections because:<br /><br /> * The genital area has a greater surface area of cells moist with body fluids (mucosal cells) than men.<br /> * Hormone changes during a woman’s menstrual cycle may affect the immune system, making it easier for the herpes simplex virus to cause an infection.</i><br /><br /><br />http://dermatology.about.com/cs/genitalherpes/a/genherp_women.htm<br /><br />If you look at the Reuters story that was the source of Roissy's factoid, it's made clear that women get herpes more easily than men. That's mentioned in the CDC press release as well. <br /><br />Really, Roissy shouldn't be claiming science is on his side if he doesn't even bother to look at a press release for the study, much less the study itself, or to do the 2 minutes of googling necessary to find out his explanation is simply wrong.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00569290850910434331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-46550076635526265832010-12-29T18:59:48.657-06:002010-12-29T18:59:48.657-06:00Paul Elam might hate patriarchy, but he believes t...Paul Elam might hate patriarchy, but he believes that the current societal structure, the one that desperately needs to be toppled, is a matriarchy, that's how out of touch with reality he is.<br /><br />Many of the MRAs and MGTOWers that hate patriarchy for the reasons put forth don't completely hate patriarchy...they hate the way that some aspects of patriarchy hurts men, but still want to hold fast to the aspects of patriarchy that privileges men.Pamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02789436253418072535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-73172713644087018002010-12-29T18:35:48.873-06:002010-12-29T18:35:48.873-06:00Vagrantsvoice, I think another important aspect of...Vagrantsvoice, I think another important aspect of a discussion of privilege is that the people without the privilege are the most likely to be doubted, vilified, second guessed, or believed for no good reason to have ulterior motives, which means that it is *important* that people *with* privilege join the fight, ie it is important that *men* talk about these things to other men, as privilege means a man's word is more likely to be believed or taken seriously than a woman's.<br /><br />This is why it is so heinous that MRAs call men like David *manginas*. Men who talk to other men about these things are doing important work, as they know their voice carries more weight.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07953553752575005593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9111611851606292564.post-88418015894626597232010-12-29T18:28:54.012-06:002010-12-29T18:28:54.012-06:00"This isn't really much of a critique of ...<i>"This isn't really much of a critique of Game, though. </i>"<br /><br />it wasn't meant as one; however, the nature of Game as supporting the sociocultural status-quo while self-admittedly profiting from feminist work makes it a parasitic thing, at best.<br /><br /><i>"Yes, yes, I've heard that before. The problem is, most of the really crazy MRAs *outrightly squander* the "power" they were born with. They're not a threat to anybody, even if you think they might have been.</i>"<br /><br />MRA's ARE a threat: they're male and for the most part white, and as such they find it vastly easier to have their ideas and thoughts listened to and accepted by the wider culture than the ideas of non-whites and non-males (or even males with non-hegemonic masculinities). It would take less effort for the MRA's to push society back to the 1950's (or the 1850's, for that matter) than it took feminists to get us OUT of them. and their mere existence takes time, energy, and money out of the effort to change society to a more equitable one.<br /><br /><i>"Ironically enough, you do realize that many MRAs, *especially* the MGTOWers, hate patriarchy for similar reasons, right? As Paul Elam said, Let the “patriarchs” of the world have their foolish ways. It matters not to me.</i>"<br /><br />every single MRA i've ever talked to doesn't even believe in the existence of the patriarchy. however, if this is an example of those who do, he's merely another parasite who won't do shit to help end it, and leaves all the work to the feminists, whom he also despises.<br /><br /><i>"Perhaps it is. In which case, it'll take a lot more to dismantle structural racism/sexism/whatever than picking on the PUAs, MRAs, and other assorted riffraff on the edges of the 'patriarchy's' power structure. You'd be a lot better off getting involved in politics, concentrating on economic issues facing women and other oppressed groups, etc. than spending so much time and effort on guys who don't and can't do anything besides post on the Internet. You're chipping away at the edges of the "patriarchy" rather than attacking its pillars, so to speak. </i>"<br /><br />I know I spend a lot of time just talking on the internet, but the fact is that you've just created a false dichotomy. I am fully capable of doing both: indulging my SIWOTI Syndrome on the fringes, and being an activist for more central issues. And some people, who aren't as ill or as dirtpoor as I (the privileges of health and class are powerful indeed) can do so even more than I can.Jadehawkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15469173565648873918noreply@blogger.com